2 barrel to 4 barrel

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273 said:
Depends if you really do any highway driving ? For intown I wouldn't mind 4.xx gears, right now I got 2.xx gears, I rarely shift into 3rd, I use my trans more like a 2 speed power glide with an OD. In second I can cruse 30-40 mph which is functioning like a 4-4.26.
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I believe I mentioned that with resect to towing and manually downshifting. I also mentioned the balance of street, highway and race use. Personal preferance is also a big consideration. What one person finds tollerable or desirable, another would find totally annoying.
For an A body car I expect most would find 3.23 to 3.73 gears quite acceptable. 3.23 without an OD while these days the 3.73 probably should have an OD trans. The 3.55 gears are in the middle and work well with a torquey engine and OD for the highway. Again, personal preference determines the end choices.
 
i've read the gm th2004r can be built to handle more hp than the th700r4 even though it's physically smaller. maybe that's why it was chosen for the available kits.
neil.
 
Dale Davies said:
I believe I mentioned that with resect to towing and manually downshifting. I also mentioned the balance of street, highway and race use. Personal preferance is also a big consideration. What one person finds tollerable or desirable, another would find totally annoying.
For an A body car I expect most would find 3.23 to 3.73 gears quite acceptable. 3.23 without an OD while these days the 3.73 probably should have an OD trans. The 3.55 gears are in the middle and work well with a torquey engine and OD for the highway. Again, personal preference determines the end choices.
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I get what you were saying, my point if highway ain’t apart of your driving then you could be pretty open to run any gear.

Maybe it’s where I live just outside of Toronto, I could go my whole life without the need for the highway. When I do take it I’m on there 15-20 minutes max. Seems to be more important in America.

I see your Canadian too :)
 
There's a guy on the /6 site that has all early a bodies ("Dart 270"-- aka Lou Madsen) who's run an a500 and has since switched that car to a gm 200-r4 in that car, I forgot what he liked better about them, other than size/ which in and of itself wouldn't matter since he's had an a 500 in that same exact car for something like 10 years before he swapped.
If I was gonna get a different brand of trans i'd be going away from an automatic for a T5. which wasn't a Ford or Chevy trans, as much as it was a Borg warner no matter what body it was put into.... I've not done the swap but direct retrofit parts are out there, and I've heard room wise they leave plenty to spare.
 
mygasser said:
i've read the gm th2004r can be built to handle more hp than the th700r4 even though it's physically smaller. maybe that's why it was chosen for the available kits.
neil.
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Not sure about more, but they can take a lot. The advantage for retrofit in other vehicles is the small external dimensions so they fit without floor modifications in most cases.
First gear is more like 2.74 while the 700 has 3.07 first. Both much improvement over a 2.45 first. Add a bit of converter with the 200 4R and it should work real well. Single unit that is close to the original trans length and the cost difference as compared to the GearVendors is probably not that far off.
 
273 said:
I get what you were saying, my point if highway ain’t apart of your driving then you could be pretty open to run any gear.

Maybe it’s where I live just outside of Toronto, I could go my whole life without the need for the highway. When I do take it I’m on there 15-20 minutes max. Seems to be more important in America.

I see your Canadian too :)
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Yes, a pissed off Canuk. Turdo is breaking us. I am kind of half way between Edmomton and Grand Prairie. Both about 1.75 hours with Edmonton having greater selection. Red Deer is 3 to 3.5 hours. So for me keeping the revs lower is a big factor. Living in southern Ontario with the population is more like Europe. Distances are much closer. For here EVs are rediculous. There would be no chance at -35°C in the winter to drive to Edmonton without a 1 to 2 hour stop to charge. Even in your area the cold limits the range. The short distances are to your benefit. EVs seem to function fairly well on the west coast with the temperate climate, but battery life is coming up short while replacement costs are rediculous. The left dishonourable prime peckerhead of Canada, daesh dustbin turdo will get a fight out of me with his wokie tokie nonsense. They can not get a straight answer out of him and his minions to save our souls. Then there is the prop, speaker Farkus!
 
Dan the man said:
What mopar od would fit into a A body without doing sheet metal work
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any sheet metal work? zero-point-zero. none. zilch. nada.
very minimal cutting for the 4spd hump? A-833OD
granted a T5 would be "minimal-ish" but it's not mopar, and neither of those rate because Matey Dan has a peg leg and can't drive stick.

after that it's 3" spinning wheel of death, sawzall and BFH time. oh and a welder. you'll need one of those too.
 
junkyardhero said:
any sheet metal work? zero-point-zero. none. zilch. nada.
very minimal cutting for the 4spd hump? A-833OD
granted a T5 would be "minimal-ish" but it's not mopar, and neither of those rate because Matey Dan has a peg leg and can't drive stick.

after that it's 3" spinning wheel of death, sawzall and BFH time. oh and a welder. you'll need one of those too.
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Cool
 
Dan the man said:
On a stock 318 ( it does have dual exhaust). Roughly how much power/ torque difference would going to a 4 barrel make? I'm asking because I was asked this same question and I said probably 15 horsepower, the person who I was talking to said that it was more like 50 horsepower and I don't believe that.
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Depends on whether or not you make any other changes. If you leave the 2v camshaft in the engine, it's going to make a little more power, but not a lot. If you go to a cam that's matched to the carb & intake you put on, then you'll see a decent difference. Basically if you leave the 2v cam in the engine, you're wasing your money on the new carb & intake.
 
i would swap the camshaft, the intake, carb and a new double roller timing chain set at the same time.

Your adding more fuel and air but your camshaft can’t benefit from the upgrades truly with that stock camshaft.

Trust me you’ll want more............
 
273 said:
Depends if you really do any highway driving ? For intown I wouldn't mind 4.xx gears, right now I got 2.xx gears, I rarely shift into 3rd, I use my trans more like a 2 speed power glide with an OD. In second I can cruse 30-40 mph which is functioning like a 4-4.26.
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If he thinks 4.30’s are too low for the street he definitely wouldn’t like 4.56’s.

Or the 4.88’s in there now.

Since he doesn’t like more gear or can’t handle it he thinks no one else can either.
 
Dale Davies said:
The LA 318 and especially the 1970's version had a carrot up its arse in the form of the camshaft. With the OEM cam any improvement possible with the upgrade to a 4V carb and manifold will be minimal. Changing to a 360 or 340 cam will greatly aid what the 4V will add. Keep the intake duration at 0.050" lift down to a max of 220°. Valve lift approaching 0.500" is desireable.
The valve curtain area is what controls the intake flow up to about 0.25D of the intake valve. Thus with a 1.72" intake valve, the valve has to open to more than 0.43" for the port to be the limiting factor. With a 1.88" valve that lift becomes 0.47". Shooting for 0.500" lift just gets you into port limited flow for a few degrees more, allowing faster intake velocity and better cylinder filling just prior to IVC. What does that mean? Better torque and drivability.
To get that lift on the intake may require changing the intake rocker ratio up by .1. Ben Alameda has a video where he discusses more power with smaller exhaust valves. The basic premiss there was a smaller exhaust allows larger intake valves. A NA engine has at best 14.7 PSI pushing air into the cylinder. At EVO the cylinder pressure is generally about 70 to 120 PSI. On blown nitro engines making 1,000HP or more per cylinder, that may be higher which requires much stronger lifters, pushrods and rocker arms due to the force against the exhaust valve head resisting it opening. Now those engines may be using 1.8" to 1.9" exhaust valves, which sounds big. But the volume of air and fuel crammed in and then combusted causes a huge volume increase by the heating.
The exhaust on our performance street or street and strip engines can function very well on small (by comparison) exhaust valves and/or a bit lower lift.
Newbomb the Turk and possibly a couple of others are liable to be triggered by this. To him/them I say, before your wood runs away with you, go watch and listen to what Ben has to say. It is a bit frustrating as I believe an outside door may have been open allowing traffic and helicopter noise in.
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Again, I watch some of Ben. You may consider him a god. I do not.

You say that *** duration and *** lift is what’s acceptable. To who? You?

I get it. You love to listen to other people and broadcast what they say, rather than actually going out and building engines.

I mean 220 at .050? That’s the size of the cam I used for my buddy’s 289 way back in 1989.

He got that because as cars go, he’s as soft as they come. He exhibits all the same unwarranted fears as some of the guys do on here.

Your building philosophy is bubble gummer nonsense.

Thank God you don’t build performance engines because you *** would be broke.

Edit: as an example, Ben’s ideas on gear drives are 100% dead wrong. So is his ideas of spark plugs and spark plug reading.

Of course, you must not watch him when he talks about building higher than orthodox compression ratios because anything over 9:1 and you start wetting your pants.

Selective knowledge isn’t a bragging point.
 
Dear Dan;
this thread has officially gone to the dogs, without any real good information whatsoever.
Everybody has an opinion with no real consensus, and they all want to spend your life's savings.
Your question was simple, but the thread has ended in a complicated chitfight.

The truth is that if you want the truth, you gotta go to the source of the truth. Don't ask a bunch of haters, cuz eventually the hate finds it's lowest point. You have found this out on FABO, over and over again.
Pick one of these guys, who seems to be most truthful, and PM just that one, and thus avoid the sewer sludge pulling you down..
 
kmccabe56 said:
Depends on whether or not you make any other changes. If you leave the 2v camshaft in the engine, it's going to make a little more power, but not a lot. If you go to a cam that's matched to the carb & intake you put on, then you'll see a decent difference. Basically if you leave the 2v cam in the engine, you're wasing your money on the new carb & intake.
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Knowing a bit about the 318 engines, I would highly recommend switching the cam first. This is the carrot in the engines arse. A 360 cam or an aftermarket cam with about 210° to 215° intake duration at 0.050" lifter lift and about 220° exhaust duration at 0.050", 108° LSA installed 4° advanced. Most are ground advanced, so go with the timing card. You want 0.475" to 0.500" intake lift. Exhaust can be a bit less. This is the plan I would have when money is tight. This will perk it up even with the 2V carb and manifold. Then when enough money is put aside or a smoking deal comes up like at a swap meet or used, go for the manifold and carb. Then later think about headers.
 
Newbomb Turk said:
Again, I watch some of Ben. You may consider him a god. I do not.

You say that *** duration and *** lift is what’s acceptable. To who? You?

I get it. You love to listen to other people and broadcast what they say, rather than actually going out and building engines.

I mean 220 at .050? That’s the size of the cam I used for my buddy’s 289 way back in 1989.

He got that because as cars go, he’s as soft as they come. He exhibits all the same unwarranted fears as some of the guys do on here.

Your building philosophy is bubble gummer nonsense.

Thank God you don’t build performance engines because you *** would be broke.

Edit: as an example, Ben’s ideas on gear drives are 100% dead wrong. So is his ideas of spark plugs and spark plug reading.

Of course, you must not watch him when he talks about building higher than orthodox compression ratios because anything over 9:1 and you start wetting your pants.

Selective knowledge isn’t a bragging point.
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Dan is a young guy and most likely on a tight budget looking for a decent running street car he can enjoy. That is where my recommendation comes from. The race car can come later.
I take information from a bunch of sources and look for some common ground and what seems to make sense. Not everyone agrees, even experienced engine builders. This is where we have to be like a cattle farmer. They do not go to the field and cut the brush that comes up in a hay field. They do not pick through the hay after cutting and before baleing either. When they take a bale out to feed the cattle they do not pick through to get the sticks out. They trust the cattle to be smart enough to eat the hay and spit the sticks out. We have to be at least as smart as the cattle, to pick the valueable stuff out and toss what we find not useful aside.
 
Dale Davies said:
Dan is a young guy and most likely on a tight budget looking for a decent running street car he can enjoy.
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i see somebody hasn't been following along...

bro, we're in like season three already. in this episode, a mid season cliff hanger, we get to see whether DTM gets a car this time, or comes up again with lame excuse as to why the deal didn't happen or some niggling detail about the car he didn't like.

go back and binge seasons 1 & 2, it's definitely worth it and you'll be all caught up.
 
junkyardhero said:
i see somebody hasn't been following along...

bro, we're in like season three already. in this episode, a mid season cliff hanger, we get to see whether DTM gets a car this time, or comes up again with lame excuse as to why the deal didn't happen or some niggling detail about the car he didn't like.

go back and binge seasons 1 & 2, it's definitely worth it and you'll be all caught up.
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I missed season 1.

I just looked dude been on here 10 years, Please tell he hasn't been shopping for a car this whole time :)
 
273 said:
I missed season 1.

I just looked dude been on here 10 years, Please tell he hasn't been shopping for a car this whole time :)
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nah, he had other ones (supposedly) that he complains about owning in typical wanna be gearhead fashion: too much money for everything, too difficult to get parts.

a true five liter fellow, if it ain't easy it's too much.
 
Back to what we were originally talking about
A swap to a bigger 2bbl like the 360s and 400s had. I know this also takes a manifold swap to do it right (I don't like those cobble- small 2bbl to big 2 bbl adapters) but it will come with a noticeable improvement in driveability on an otherwise stock 318.......
 
Dan the man said:
No, I haven't been
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Was just wondering, from what I understand it's been a few years, I've only come to noticed you in the last year, I'm all for you doing you and could careless if you ever get a car and continue to post non stop about non sense, it's all good, but you shouldn't be surprised by people's reactions and act all wounded dog that's where you lose me :)
 
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