Anybody running 17" Cobra Bullit rims on a Duster

[mopardude318]

17x8 w/ 5.72 backspace. tires are half worn out wynstar exocet 245/45/17..they are a factory mustang tire...my friend gets alot of take off tires from the dealership. so i get them for free...

[jamesdart]

looks much higher than my duster

[mopardude318]

i think the pics make it look high...the k frame is only 7" from the ground...i dunno how much lower I can go. If I were to unscrew the adjuster nut to attempt to get another 1 inch lower, they would be all the way loose...

[mopardude318]

OK, what is everyone's ride height? how far is the lower control arm bump stop from the frame, and how far is the middle of the K-frame from the ground? what is the average/normal ride height?

Reilly is telling me that:
"1.0 inch torsion bars are WAY too stiff for a small block car and that with a ride height that high, geometry sucks. It will still wander all over the place, and since those bars are totally unwound at ride height, the ride quality will be miserable."

So, now I have the ride height down, and the LCA bump stops are just touching the frame...The torsion bar adjuster bolts are almost all the way out...Is it possible I installed the torsion bars wrong? can I clock them a different way? does it matter?

[clair.davis]

To get big stock-type or MP bars down to a lowered-looking ride height (lower than stock by a good bit), there may be very little or no preload on the adjusters. I've got 1.14" bars and only enough preload on the adjuster to keep things from rattling. I suspect I could remove them and be OK with the ride height, but I drive this car on real streets, so I'm a little higher than "race".

For alignment purposes, you want to be low enough that you're on the compression side of the movement curve. That may help a tad with the alignment setup, but you'll be close to or on the bump stops. I personally don't think that's a big deal, as the bigger bars don't need as much suspension movement, and a stock rubber bump stop acts like a variable spring as it compresses. FWIW, I have NO compression bump stops on my car, and I don't think I've made any LCA/chassis contact. I'm not doing any Duke Boys maneuvers, either.

Clair

[bjkadron]

Originally Posted by mopardude318

OK, what is everyone's ride height? how far is the lower control arm bump stop from the frame, and how far is the middle of the K-frame from the ground? what is the average/normal ride height?

Reilly is telling me that:
"1.0 inch torsion bars are WAY too stiff for a small block car and that with a ride height that high, geometry sucks. It will still wander all over the place, and since those bars are totally unwound at ride height, the ride quality will be miserable."

So, now I have the ride height down, and the LCA bump stops are just touching the frame...The torsion bar adjuster bolts are almost all the way out...Is it possible I installed the torsion bars wrong? can I clock them a different way? does it matter?

I would say mine Duster is about 7" from the k-from to the ground. I have about 3" below the swaybar mounts. Which is too low for the stock bars so I need to crank them up even more... They are to where I can't turn them with a wrench just a socket now. I can't measure at my house because their is nowhere flat, but I can measure for you on Wednesday.

[mopardude318]

Well, I lowered my ride height, and now the frame is just right on the LCA bump stop...I cant lower it any more, as you can see because the adjuster will almost be all the way backed out...causing no preload at all on the T-bars.




Now my ride height is a touch lower at 6 1/2", if you were to measure from the front of the K-frame:


and measuring from the rear , i have 5 1/2" from the ground:


and heres the other side:



does it still look too high from this perspective?

[autoxcuda]

Originally Posted by clair.davis

To get big stock-type or MP bars down to a lowered-looking ride height (lower than stock by a good bit), there may be very little or no preload on the adjusters. I've got 1.14" bars and only enough preload on the adjuster to keep things from rattling. I suspect I could remove them and be OK with the ride height, but I drive this car on real streets, so I'm a little higher than "race".

For alignment purposes, you want to be low enough that you're on the compression side of the movement curve. That may help a tad with the alignment setup, but you'll be close to or on the bump stops. I personally don't think that's a big deal, as the bigger bars don't need as much suspension movement, and a stock rubber bump stop acts like a variable spring as it compresses. FWIW, I have NO compression bump stops on my car, and I don't think I've made any LCA/chassis contact. I'm not doing any Duke Boys maneuvers, either.

Clair

I agree, dump those fat stock rubber bumpstops. I'm about 5.5" from the ground at the back of the K-member. I've run 1" (.99) T-bars since 1993 and about 60K miles. I'll get you a top of fender lip distance on Wednesday night if I can remember.

Driven all over hell with it that way. The car was even lower when I ran Pirreli P-Zero 225/50/15 tires instead of the 245/50/15's I run now.

When I ran the 225/50/15's the K-member would NOT clear a parking lot concrete bumpstop. I drove across country with those tires. They suck in the snow BTW. But with 180? treadwear, they didn't last a long time.

If you really feel you have to have bumpstops, check Summit for poly bumpstops and the thinnest they sell is like a 3/8" round one that will bolt rignt into the Mopar LCA.

Originally Posted by mopardude318

OK, what is everyone's ride height? how far is the lower control arm bump stop from the frame, and how far is the middle of the K-frame from the ground? what is the average/normal ride height?

Reilly is telling me that:
"1.0 inch torsion bars are WAY too stiff for a small block car and that with a ride height that high, geometry sucks. It will still wander all over the place, and since those bars are totally unwound at ride height, the ride quality will be miserable."

So, now I have the ride height down, and the LCA bump stops are just touching the frame...The torsion bar adjuster bolts are almost all the way out...Is it possible I installed the torsion bars wrong? can I clock them a different way? does it matter?

Here's my LCA distance with no bumpstop installed.

[mopardude318]

Autox, those bump stops are poly units from summit...I'll try the 3/8" round ones later...It just seems to me that having it that low, the car "feels" softer than it does with the adjusters screwed in a touch more...the T-bar rate doesn't increase when I preload them more? I thought that when you crank up the T-bars, the ride would get stiffer...or is my thinking all jacked up?

[autoxcuda]

Originally Posted by mopardude318

Autox, those bump stops are poly units from summit...I'll try the 3/8" round ones later...It just seems to me that having it that low, the car "feels" softer than it does with the adjusters screwed in a touch more...the T-bar rate doesn't increase when I preload them more? I thought that when you crank up the T-bars, the ride would get stiffer...or is my thinking all jacked up?

Nope, that just changes the height. Would be like putting metal spacers on top of a coil spring car. Just changes the height. The static load comes from the actual weight on the front end.

[mopardude318]

OK, thank you very much sir...it is what it is..lol..now I just have to figure out my UCA clearance issues, and how to properly measure camber..? or at least get it close enough so i can take it to get an alignment..

[clair.davis]

I was going to use the short (1/2"?) bump stops, but had the bolt in the stop shear through the poly when I was installing them. These did not have a square shoulder to fit the hole in the Mopar LCA, so keep that in mind. I can't remember the brand, but I'm thinking PST. Just a plain black poly piece. To me, the short dome-shaped stops aren't ideal, but are about all that's out there. Something shaped the same as the OEM piece, but shorter, would be my preference.

FWIW, I don't think your ride height looks bad at all. That's about the same as mine and it works well on the street.

On the camber, just put a straight-edge on the wheel from lip to lip, and rotate both adjusters out equally (if you can) to get the wheel straight up or slightly in at the top. That'll get you in the ballpark.

Clair

[cybrtygr32]

Looks great BJ. What tire are you using and also are those 2004 and older Bullitts? I know the 2005 and newer have the 6.29 back space where the others have the 5.79 (I think). Are you using any kind of spacer? I'm at work and didn't read complete thread. This may have already been answered. How about rear?

Thanks, Mike in alabama

[cybrtygr32]

Sorry about that 318, (not BJ).

[pauly v.100]

not sure if this was asked but are your t-bars from mopar or aftermarket? the reason i ask is because mopar bars are indexed for heavier cars. in other words, if you buy, for example, c-body diameter bars from mopar they are indexed for a much heavier car and you won't be able to go very low without running your adjuster all the way out. aftermarket bars, or at least the ones from firmfeel, are indexed for a-bodies (i.e. lower) but still have the spring rate of the heavier c-body cars. that info provided to me by dick at firmfeel. hope this info does'nt muddy the waters further.

[mopardude318]

Originally Posted by pauly v.100

not sure if this was asked but are your t-bars from mopar or aftermarket? the reason i ask is because mopar bars are indexed for heavier cars. in other words, if you buy, for example, c-body diameter bars from mopar they are indexed for a much heavier car and you won't be able to go very low without running your adjuster all the way out. aftermarket bars, or at least the ones from firmfeel, are indexed for a-bodies (i.e. lower) but still have the spring rate of the heavier c-body cars. that info provided to me by dick at firmfeel. hope this info does'nt muddy the waters further.

Hey pauly, the 1.0" torsion bars are from Just Suspension, that I ordered off of E-bay that was listed for an A-body...Am I in the clear???

[mopardude318]

Originally Posted by cybrtygr32

Looks great BJ. What tire are you using and also are those 2004 and older Bullitts? I know the 2005 and newer have the 6.29 back space where the others have the 5.79 (I think). Are you using any kind of spacer? I'm at work and didn't read complete thread. This may have already been answered. How about rear?

Thanks, Mike in alabama

Hey Mike, the rims did come off of a 99-04 mustang, so I know that they are the 5.72" backspace. And yes I am using a 3/8" spacer that was made by Lug Nut King, great quality spacers for only $40. The rear I'm using a '68 B-body 8 3/4 with the spring perches moved in 1/2" each side. I rebuilt the whole thing, new green bearings, wheel studs, 742 case 3:55 clutch type sure grip, new drums and shoes, new brake hardware...

[cybrtygr32]

Thanks for reply. I have a set of the 2005 6.29's and they look brand new ($150.00 at swap meet) for 67 Fastback. I just hate that deep back space. I have put new 245/245 rubberon them. I also have 8" Ford Granada rear, but we had to use a 1" spacer (not adapter, with 3" studs) for leaf clearance. I know a lot of guys don't like the spacer idea, but a friend of mine uses them in the arca (used to be ) race circuit cars at high speeds, no problem. I'm not worried about the rear, but I haven't set up the front yet. I have "73 Duster UCA and Disc going on soon. Just wasn't sure how much space i needed there. Maybe 5/8" or so? These post have been great! Keepem coming.

Mike (WAR EAGLE)

[pauly v.100]

Mopardude 318-
just suspension lists those bars for A-body so i guess you're in the clear. to be certain i would call and ask.
also, you shouldn't need the 3/8 spacer in the back if you're using a b-body rear. fronts maybe.

[mopardude318]

Originally Posted by pauly v.100

Mopardude 318-
just suspension lists those bars for A-body so i guess you're in the clear. to be certain i would call and ask.
also, you shouldn't need the 3/8 spacer in the back if you're using a b-body rear. fronts maybe.

Pauly- They said the bars are for an A-body, so that's good. The 3/8" spacer is for the front...

Also, about my A-arm dilemma...Bill Reilly is working with me to make a complete new set of A-arms designed for this specific application, that will be available for everyone-not just me. I just have to wait for a week or so for Bill to design them, and then he will send them to me to try out, and if they clear and everything works good, he'll start making them for everyone as a new product...