68 Hemi Dart's at Mecum Indy

[4spd340Swinger]

I was looking at the three cars that are going to be sold at Mecum Indy. I have a couple questions that I may know the answers to but wanted to reach out to the vast knowledge here. I noticed that all three cars have different shifters. Dual gate, B&M etc... I assume that was driver preference? Also,I was under the impression that they all started out as 383 darts but one of them has 270 door emblems and does not have the rear valance. Preference again???

 

[autoxcuda]

The cars have been raced and modified over the years. Sometimes they are restored to a certain period of time. Maybe when they were the most successful or had the mist famous driver…

As delivered… the autos had Hurst dual gates consolette that was available aftermarket at the time. The bezel is the same as used on GTO and Oldsmobile

The bodies had specific attributes called out. It’s tough to say they really started out as a particular model. The entire drivetrain and suspension that Hurst put into these bare bodies were special and didn’t share anything specifically with a GTS. Special: rear end, k-member, engine, trans, front disks, headers, exhaust, leaf springs….

The darts had 270 door panels, convertible frame re-enforcements, deck lids with no holes punched for any trim or GTS emblems. They don’t really have any parts specific to a GTS body in them. Except the radiator.

That said, Factory docs do mention GTS.

 

[autoxcuda]

Historically, most of the people that have owned and restored these cars over the past 30 years have never restored an A-body or paid much attention to them otherwise. They are typically high end Hemi B or E-body people. Or high end factory race car collectors.

So there’s a lot of wives-tales, misinformation, bad rumors that swirl around these cars.

 

[A56]

IMO I can't think of a reason why there were any LO23 Hemi Darts with 270 emblems on them, and with all of the chatter about these cars that's never been mentioned. It's not like there was a shortage of 383 Darts or 340 Darts for that matter.

 

[autoxcuda]

IMO I can't think of a reason why there were any LO23 Hemi Darts with 270 emblems on them, and with all of the chatter about these cars that's never been mentioned. It's not like there was a shortage of 383 Darts or 340 Darts for that matter.

The 270 is the lowest line Dart Hardtop.

The first thing Chrysler Engineer Bob Tarozzi did in late 1967 when beginning the design of these cars was weight analysis.

I own Bob’s 3” thick binder full of notes from the Super Stock project.

He was looking for the lightest and most optimum components to build the cars. And he got reports from departments on the weight of parts. I don’t think he has a weight for door panels listed.
But the presumption would be the lower line 270 panels weigh less. I’d guess the only difference would be the emblem; 270 smaller than GTS, but thicker.

 

[SSing]

Yes, like autoxcuda says and cost was a big factor too.
Every cent... the 270 panel would sirtenly cost less, in that for every GTS panel made, two hundred or more, 270 panles were produced...

 

[A56]

The 270 is the lowest line Dart Hardtop.

The first thing Chrysler Engineer Bob Tarozzi did in late 1967 when beginning the design of these cars was weight analysis.

I own Bob’s 3” thick binder full of notes from the Super Stock project.

He was looking for the lightest and most optimum components to build the cars. And he got reports from departments on the weight of parts. I don’t think he has a weight for door panels listed.
But the presumption would be the lower line 270 panels weigh less. I’d guess the only difference would be the emblem; 270 smaller than GTS, but thicker.

Just playing devils advocate here. Maybe, but the doors were dipped, eventually the front fenders and hood were fiberglass. Bumpers were thinned, and they all were reportedly shipped over to Hurst with a 383. Wouldn't that require some sort of documentation that a 383 was in the 270 body or did they use 270 doors on a 383 body? The same mindset apparently didn't carry over to using the low level Barracuda.

 

[SSing]

If I may chime in here...
Body was shiped to Hurst less engine, hood and fenders. Door on, glass out, according to Tarozzi.
To my understanding, only reason we are talking 383, is this was the only modell, both auto and 4-speed cars, had rear torque boxes. Not so much, but at least some reinforcement...

 

[A56]

If I may chime in here...
Body was shiped to Hurst less engine, hood and fenders. Door on, glass out, according to Tarozzi.
To my understanding, only reason we are talking 383, is this was the only modell, both auto and 4-speed cars, had rear torque boxes. Not so much, but at least some reinforcement...

Strange, I thought not counting the convertibles of course, many 340 and 383's had torque boxes whether 4 or as few as 2 and I know some had none. '68 340 and 383 Barracuda's suffered this same "some had all 4 some only 2 and some none. You just never know with MoPars.

 

[autoxcuda]

If I may chime in here...
Body was shiped to Hurst less engine, hood and fenders. Door on, glass out, according to Tarozzi.
To my understanding, only reason we are talking 383, is this was the only modell, both auto and 4-speed cars, had rear torque boxes. Not so much, but at least some reinforcement...

Convertibles had rear torque boxes. And front boxes. And I think reinforcing inside the rocker panel. Would have to look if that is referenced to in the notes.

I believe the S/S cars had front boxes.

 

[autoxcuda]

Strange, I thought not counting the convertibles of course, many 340 and 383's had torque boxes whether 4 or as few as 2 and I know some had none. '68 340 and 383 Barracuda's suffered this same "some had all 4 some only 2 and some none. You just never know with MoPars.

I think the doors were made with thinner metal.

The bumpers were made that way.

 

[A56]

Convertibles had rear torque boxes. And front boxes. And I think reinforcing inside the rocker panel. Would have to look if that is referenced to in the notes.

I believe the S/S cars had front boxes.

Yes, I've read this to be true "Convertibles had rear torque boxes. And front boxes. And I think reinforcing inside the rocker panel"

 

[LO23M8B]

IMO I can't think of a reason why there were any LO23 Hemi Darts with 270 emblems on them, and with all of the chatter about these cars that's never been mentioned. It's not like there was a shortage of 383 Darts or 340 Darts for that matter.

Mine had the 270's.

 

[SSing]

Convertibles had rear torque boxes. And front boxes. And I think reinforcing inside the rocker panel. Would have to look if that is referenced to in the notes.

I believe the S/S cars had front boxes.

I have many pictures from 1968-69 Car Magazine articles, showing front not beeing boxed. That´s why I draw the conclusion 383 cars were chosen, because they are the only model, both auto and stick model, having only the rear boxed.

 

[Jeremiah (jd)]

Strange, I thought not counting the convertibles of course, many 340 and 383's had torque boxes whether 4 or as few as 2 and I know some had none. '68 340 and 383 Barracuda's suffered this same "some had all 4 some only 2 and some none. You just never know with MoPars.

Do we have any members on the board woth a 340/383 a body with 4 or 0 torque boxes. I have only seen 4 on a convertible when it comes to a body cars. To clarify, did the LO23 and BO23 cars have all 4 torque boxes?

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

Do we have any members on the board woth a 340/383 a body with 4 or 0 torque boxes. I have only seen 4 on a convertible when it comes to a body cars. To clarify, did the LO23 and BO23 cars have all 4 torque boxes?

My 383 car just has the rears. If I make it out to the garage today I’ll snap a pic. It’s on the hoist. I’ve been told they took the 383 bodies to make the hurst cars from. Think I read that as well. Only cars I’ve seen 4 on were convertibles. I will also say my dad 340’gts didn’t have any. Don’t think the 340 swinger in the garage does either.

 

[A56]

Do we have any members on the board woth a 340/383 a body with 4 or 0 torque boxes. I have only seen 4 on a convertible when it comes to a body cars. To clarify, did the LO23 and BO23 cars have all 4 torque boxes?

My 340 has 4

 

[glenn340]

My 1969 340 GTS 4spd has 4.
My 1972 Duster 340 4spd has 4.

 

[Cliff Ramsdell]

My 68 340 4 speed GTS has no torque boxes.

Cliff Ramsdell

 

[dadsbee]

My '69 340 Swinger has none...

 

[Jeremiah (jd)]

Very interesting! Thanks to those that responded.

 

[Bennoel 10]

Do we have any members on the board woth a 340/383 a body with 4 or 0 torque boxes. I have only seen 4 on a convertible when it comes to a body cars. To clarify, did the LO23 and BO23 cars have all 4 torque boxes?

I have these examples....
Two 1969 factory 340 4 spd swingers-4 boxes. One 1969 factory 340 4 spd GTS convertible-4 boxes and one factory 340 3 spd manual trans Duster-4 boxes. My understanding of this controversy is that manual trans 340 cars came with 4 torque boxes although with the quality control not being what it might be today some were missed and some were even installed when not required. Also my understanding that all convertible models got 4 torque boxes to add strength regardless of engine or trans. As for the BO and LO cars I'm not that lucky to have owned any.