Performance Questions 225 vs. 360

[Sully1190]

Hey, guys. Yes, I know I ask a lot of random questions in a lot of different forums. I hope you all don't mind. I'm just trying to accrue as much information as possible before I make the decision on what to do with the engine in my car.

The option that' at least for now, is starting to look more and more tempting, is to keep the slant six. The only question is, do I want to trick it out any? Well, that's a dumb question, really. Of course I do. Lemme try again: The only question is, how much does it cost to trick out a slant?

The engine in my car is a 225 /6. It's the original engine for the car (a 74 Duster). My main curiosity is, how much bang for my buck can expect when modifying this engine?

I would like, at very least, to be able to make it comparable (if not better than) the 360, since it was the biggest stock engine for the year of my car. How much money would it take to get to that point? Would it be cheaper than just putting a 360 in? (The engine swap website makes it seem like there's actually a decent bit involved in swapping to a small block. From changing the drive shaft length, to changing the front breaks, etc...)

I'm open to any kind of modification suggestions. I'm going to have the engine out to clean it up, paint it, probably rebuilt it, and generally get it looking nice. So I'll already be in a great position to do a little hot-rodding on it. I've read that turbocharging the engine makes a pretty big difference. Any suggestions on a good economical rebuild that involves that?

Essentially, as I said, I don't really want to invest the time and money if it doesn't mean being able to outdo one of the small block v8s at a comparable price. I like thinking outside the box, and I certainly know that the slants can be made to whip up on the larger engines, but I was curious if they could do that at an economical price. Thank you in advance for all of your help.

(For reference, Allpar lists the 360 at 175 hp @ 4,000 rpm, and 285 lb-ft of torque @ 2,400)

 

[mopardude318]

absolutely build a 360. Dollar for dollar, pound for pound, the 360 will kick the slants ***. I threw my slant away...lol yanked it out of my 70 dart, and hauled it off to the metal yard...lol

 

[Sully1190]

absolutely build a 360. Dollar for dollar, pound for pound, the 360 will kick the slants ***. I threw my slant away...lol yanked it out of my 70 dart, and hauled it off to the metal yard...lol

I'm not talking about building one too ^^ I already have the slant, I was just curious what could be done for it for the cost I would have in buying a 360, buying a transmission, fabricating my drive shaft, buying engine mounts, changing out my brakes, etc. I doubt buying and building up a 360 is in the cards for me right now.

 

[Abodybomber]

Slants respond to mods.Look at Memike's thread,good stuff there.

 

[VDART]

Do some searching here & slantsix.org.

there are slant powered vehicles in the 9's.
a slant will never compete with a 360-- but you can make a slant very nice by modifying it just like any modified engine:
, headwork, better flowing exhaust & well tuned timing & fuel system.

What are your driving habits-- if you want to beat a ricer stop light to stop light-- then it will cost $$.

I would open up the stock exhaust , tune-up the carb & timing & see how it goes, when was the last time the valves were re-set?

And lastly how mechanical are you? motivated with friends & how much $$ do you have-- a v-8 swap is not cheap even with a parts car
the pictures show the 75 duster & the 73 dart sport parts car -- used in swapping a 360 in to a car very similar to yours:

if you have your slant out-- that's the time to work it-- I have a slant head you could have for shipping to modify & less down time for your car.
Lawrence

 

[273]

Personally I'd swap 5.9 magnum with a 4bbl and duals into your car I see them all the time low K $500-$800 the old 300 hp create engine was just a stock 5.9 with 4bbl and headers and dyno'd 320hp so even with manifolds you'll have 280-300hp and a cam swap can get you around 350-400hp. If you want to stick with the /6 4bbl, mild cam, headers with duals, stall and gears will wake it up but it will still slower than a 360 for more $$$ and if your more adventurous pull the head and port and mill with a performance valve job and might keep up with a 175hp 360. Go Magnum

 

[1970Duster]

Use a late 80s/early 90s 360 LA Roller Block. You'll be miles ahead if the game that way. What I would've used instead of my 340 had I known about them at the time I was looking for a motor and if I didn't pay next to dirt for my 340 block.

 

[DusterKrazy]

I love some /6 action but the reality is that the six won't compare to a 360. There are some fast /6's out there but at what cost??

It's never as easy or as cheap as anyone makes it out to be. I speak from experience here.

 

[Bill Dedman]

Hey, guys. Yes, I know I ask a lot of random questions in a lot of different forums. I hope you all don't mind. I'm just trying to accrue as much information as possible before I make the decision on what to do with the engine in my car.

The option that' at least for now, is starting to look more and more tempting, is to keep the slant six. The only question is, do I want to trick it out any? Well, that's a dumb question, really. Of course I do. Lemme try again: The only question is, how much does it cost to trick out a slant?

The engine in my car is a 225 /6. It's the original engine for the car (a 74 Duster). My main curiosity is, how much bang for my buck can expect when modifying this engine?

I would like, at very least, to be able to make it comparable (if not better than) the 360, since it was the biggest stock engine for the year of my car. How much money would it take to get to that point? Would it be cheaper than just putting a 360 in? (The engine swap website makes it seem like there's actually a decent bit involved in swapping to a small block. From changing the drive shaft length, to changing the front breaks, etc...)

I'm open to any kind of modification suggestions. I'm going to have the engine out to clean it up, paint it, probably rebuilt it, and generally get it looking nice. So I'll already be in a great position to do a little hot-rodding on it. I've read that turbocharging the engine makes a pretty big difference. Any suggestions on a good economical rebuild that involves that?

Essentially, as I said, I don't really want to invest the time and money if it doesn't mean being able to outdo one of the small block v8s at a comparable price. I like thinking outside the box, and I certainly know that the slants can be made to whip up on the larger engines, but I was curious if they could do that at an economical price. Thank you in advance for all of your help.

(For reference, Allpar lists the 360 at 175 hp @ 4,000 rpm, and 285 lb-ft of torque @ 2,400)

Read this and then make up your mind.:wack:

Comparison of turbo Slant Six 500 HP build vs.
500 HP 318/340/360 small block build

The following is written in reference to the 225 motor. The 170 is a different kettle of fish.


It would seem that slant 6 motors (remember, this is about 225s,) were built (though, not intentionally,) to be force-fed air and fuel.

Whether it's done with a supercharger, nitrous oxide, or a turbo, it once-and-for-all, makes an end run around the built-in breathing problem that slant sixes suffer from birth. Because of their small bores, they can never have the kind of breathing that will deliver horsepower in the 1.75 hp-per-cubic-inch range. Not with that original, cast-iron, 2-valve head, at least.

The engine is rpm limited because of the long (4-1/8") stroke, so it's never going to deliver the goods at 8,000 rpm. That's the rpm where most small-block Chevys that are really "built" seem to make big power. I'm talking the small-displacement, short stroke models.

RPM's? Forget it. Too much piston speed.

Because of the fact that the original plans for the slant 6 included an aluminum block (and, the fact that that aluminum isn't as strong as cast iron,) the basic specifications for the slant 6 block were robust, to say the least; they had to be... aluminum needs more mass to be as strong as it needs to be for reliability, than cast iron. Well, the engine that went on to live in Mopars of various descriptions for many years, turned out to be cast iron.

But, the changes in the cast iron version, from the aluminum parameters, were minimal.

That meant that the resulting engine was an unusually strong critter, not unlike a Diesel, in basic construction.

A forged steel crank with mains the size of a 426 Hemi’s made for an equally-strong bottom end.

Along the way, someone a whole lot smarter than I am, realized that what this all meant was, you could boost the s**t out of this little motor without hurting it. Boost = performance increases!

Tom Wolfe (Shaker223 on FABO) and another FABO member whose name is Ryan Petesron built the prototypes for the engine that is in the '64 Valiant that Freddie and I plan to run. We bald-facedly copied their lead, and we are HOPEFULLY going to run within a second of their cars. There are only minimal differences in their "recipe" from ours. But, they did it first; we're just copy-cats.


In this diatribe, I am going to try to justify why anyone would want to go this route, ($$$$$$$$$$$,) and perhaps point out a few reasons why it might not be such a good idea, after all...


There are (at least) two kinds of people out there; those who just want to go fast, and those who want to go fast and prove something in the process.

Anybody can stick a big engine into a light car with easily predictable results: It's gonna be F-A-S-T!!! Those 440+ cubic inch A Bodies are hard to outrun... and, with good reason! Ma made it pretty easy to drop an RB engine into an A-Body, and beyond getting it to hook, the problems in getting it to go fast are not actually what you'd call "insurmountable." Whoever said, "There's no substitute for cubic inches," said a mouthful!

Senor' Schumacher has made the task of installing a big engine into a Dart or Duster a lot easier, with his motor mounts and custom-fit big-engine-in-a-in small car headers. The appeal is almost overwhelming, if you love "speed."

Some folks, though, look at that operation and say, "Ho Hum... It SHOULD be fast; big block in a small car.... so what?"

Some of those detractors want to produce a fun car with a smaller engine, but not TOO small.. There are the 318/340/360 guys who don't want the hassles that go with the installation of a third-member-breaking big block, but would still like to trim a few Corvettes.

To them, a small-block is the answer; they don't want to mess with a slant six, because 1. They don't like the way they sound, and 2. it's hard to build one that will outrun most Corvettes. They probably have never SEEN an 11-second slant six car. Or, a 12-second one; thirteen second slant six cars are not even that plentiful.... so, they know that they can stick a set of headers on a 340, raise the compression to 11.5:1, go with any one of a hundred different solid lifter cams, and presto," a low 12-second car that will embarrass most street driven anything, Corvettes, included.

Enter the slant 6 turbo, the type of engine that most regular-guy Mopar enthusiasts think is an oddball, weird combination that yeah, may be pretty fast, but has to be expensive!!! Right? I mean, you don't get 2+ horsepower per cubic inch out of a slant six without a ton of costly, cutting-edge technology!

Well, that's just not true.

Let me point out what ~I~ have found out about this turbo six business that has made me wonder whether it might not be actually CHEAPER than building an equal-power small block. Especially, if you already HAVE the /6, but will have to buy a V8.


Here are a few ways that the turbo slant six can be a cheaper alternative to an equally-powerful small block.

For purposes of apples-to-apples, let's compare two 500 horsepower engines; one normally-aspirated 360, with time-honored, normal hop-up mods to produce 500 flywheel HP and a turbocharged slant six with equal power.


Lets start with acquiring a rebuildable engine "core."

People give away slant 6's all the time. The one we are attempting to build was, in fact, given to us. It was on its way to the dump, if we didn’t want it. “Free” is always good…

That scenario is also possible with small blocks, but not as easy... and virtually impossible to find a "free" rebuildable 340. But, you don't HAVE to start with a 340; it can even be a 318... but that won’t be as easy. A 500-horsepower 318 is not hard to imagine, but probably would need some pretty good heads, and 12-1 compression. It would also need to be rpm capable, to a large degree. (7,000?)

Not so hard with a 360, but they are not as much in abundance for free, I think. Could be wrong about that. More like $150 for a rebuildable "core."

Advantage, slant 6.

There is more of everything to buy for 8 cylinders compared with 6. Pistons, valves, bearings, rings, valve springs, HEADS... retainers, keepers...

Advantage, slant 6

The driveability of a turbo slant 6 is not much different from a stocker, in that the main thing(s) that destroy driveability, are radical cams with a fast, ragged idle, and big ports that allow the fuel to fall out of suspension (at low rpm) in the ports, due to low velocities brought on by the size of the ports. The turbo slant six cams don't have much more duration than a stock one, and the ports, even in ported heads, aren't very big.

Advantage, slant 6.

The slant six's that have been turbocharged with high-boost (over 20 pounds,) don't seem to like rpm's and don't NEED rpm's to deliver the goods. Tom Wolfe and Ryan Peterson, the two examples I am citing here, both contend that their engines have a de-facto red line of about 5,500 rpm. With such a low red line, the reciprocating stresses, even with a 1-and-an-eighth-inch, stroke, are low enough that these engines will never fail due to bearing loads brought on by excessive piston speed, That is MY opinion; nothing more. Making 500 horsepower from a normally-aspirated small block is going to require that you spin it, probably fast enough to put engine life in jeopardy, if you do it very often.

Advantage, slant six (my opinion)

Because of the relatively low rpm operation of the turbo slant six, the valve train can remain, with stock pushrods and rocker arms, due to the low valve spring pressures required. The money you DON'T have to spend on needle bearing, rollerized rockers, special, heavy-duty pushrods and roller lifters is money saved.

Advantage, slant six.

The rear axle ratios in the two quickest A Body turbo slant six cars that I have seen evidence of, are 2.76:1 for the strip AND for the street. The turbo motors are weird, in that the car slows down with normally-"steep" rear gears, such as the 4.56:1 units often found in small-block cars. The turbo motor seems to make more power (not unlike a "fuel" motor) when it is "held back" and not allowed to increase rpm quickly. The significance if this is, the turbo motors also can use the same ratio for highway driving AND drag strip action. The small block "built" motor wouldn't think much of a 2.76:1 rear end on the drag strip, nor would it perform up to its potential, with a 4.56:1 on the highway. So, if you build a small block and it does double duty, you really need two sets of gears; one for the drag strip and one of the highway. No problem; you can change third members in a couple of hours (or, less.) But, they don't give away 8.75" A-Body housings these days, and neither is it cheap to buy and maintain two sets of third members, with different ratios; one for racing, blah, blah, blah...

The turbo slant six car can easily make do with a "one-ratio-fits-all" rear end. A late model, A Body 8.25" rear end from a junk yard will be lots cheaper (or, one out of an Aspen/Volare car) and will come with highway (and drag strip) gears already in it.... and is plenty strong for this application. More money saved.

Advantage, slant six

Because a high-stall converter is neither desirable nor necessary, turbo slant six converters are going to be cheaper than a 4,000-5,000-rpm unit that would be probably necessary for a wildly-cammed small block. Once again, the street driveability issue comes to light. The tighter slant six converter would not create as much heat as a high-stall, small block unit would, in daily driving.

Advantage, slant six

I BELIEVE that a turbocharged slant six motor is about 80-100 pounds
lighter than an iron small block. Can't prove that, but I'd bet on it.

Advantage slant six

The "bling" factor at shows might be of interest to some. A nice-looking small block has a LOT of competition at car shows and usually needs to have something really special, in cosmetic appeal, to win an award, just because there are so many... But, a slant six with a turbo on it is such a rarity, judges HAVE to pay attention.

Advantage, slant six

Then, there are the negative factors... and, there are some!

You can always put a turbo on a small block and go much faster than you could EVER hope to go with a slant six


Advantage, small block

No roller cams are available for slant six engine (no available roller-tappet cores) so, the ZDDP issue is always a problem.

Advantage, small block

You REALLY need both an intercooler AND a chemical intercooler (alcohol injector) for a hi-boost turbo slant six, and they don't give these away. None is needed on a normally-aspirated small block,

Advantage, small block

I don't think that a turbocharged slant six is a very good bracket car for drag racing, because of problems with turbo-spool on takeoff, and consistency. We are not building our car to run brackets; if we wanted to win bracket races, we'd build something else.

Advantage; small block

Detonation under boost will destroy a turbocharged motor on boost, quicker than you can say "turbo." So, fuel of sufficient octane is always going to be a problem. E-85 would be the perfect hi-octane fuel, but the quality of it at the pump is so iffy, you just can't trust it when it comes to boosted motors. The normally-aspirated small block, with high-compression pistons is choosy when it comes to octane, too, but the results from normally-aspirated detonation are usually not as "catastrophic" as when it happens with, say, 25 pounds of boost. So, I have to say that the turbo slant six is a problem child in that area. Bear in mind that I originally said a "500-horsepower" turbo slant six. That's what we are talking about, here, But to be realistic, the great bulk of whatever turbocharged slant six motors come to pass, MOST will never see boost levels that high, and the picture changes greatly at 7-10 pounds of boost. But, that wasn't the argument, here. Soooooo...

Advantage, small block

The sound of a well-tuned, high-revving small block at full song, is music to almost everyone's ears. Slant sixes with turbos are quiet: the turbo impeller sort of homoginizes the sound waves... They sound sort of like a UPS truck on steroids...

Advantage small block



Due to the very-limited rpm range (less than 5,500rpm, tops, usually) the slant six turbo motor doesn't need a high rpm ignition system like a high-winding, 500 HP, normally-aspirated small block. A stock distributor will work fine, with no worries about effective spark at 7,000 rpm... 'cause, that boosted slant 6 is never gonna see even 6,000 rpm, much less 7,000...

Advantage, slant six

There are no aftermarket (aluminum, or otherwise) cylinder heads for the slant six, so the best you can do is to port the original head, and add some cheap 1/75"/1.5" valves (some folks have used 318 valves.) And, there's only ONE head to deal with, so there's just no place to spend money (of the quantity the V8 car can absorb) on the head. A complete ported head for a slant 6, ready to run, will be cheaper than a pair of aftermarket V8 heads that will support 500 horsepower, I believe.

Advantage, slant six



I hope that after reading this meandering post, I have made a case for it being actually cheaper to build a 500 HP turbo slant 6 than it is to make the same amount of power with a normally-aspirated, small block V8.
You pays your money and you takes your cherce...
Good luck!!!

 

[kielbasavw]

Wanna have fun drive a 12sec vw... now that's some entertaining driving. All natural aspirated as well.

 

[Bill Dedman]

Wanna have fun drive a 12sec vw... now that's some entertaining driving. All natural aspirated as well.

AND, it would provide you with a new hobby; recuilding transaxles!

Having 60-percent of the Beetle's weight on the drive wheels, and shoving 200 horsepower through a drivetrain that was originally designed for 36 is a recipe for lots of downtime...

But, when it works, I'm sure there is LOT of fun to be had.. for sure!:blob:

There used to be a company called "Transvair" that made a kit to bolt a whole Corvair drivertain, engine and transaxle, into the back of a Beetls.

It had a little "bustle-back" engine cover to hide the 6-cylinder engine, but by the time anybody noticed, it was too late... HEH-HEH!:burnout:

I wanted one... bad.. LOL!

 

[krazykuda]

Get in touch with memike and slant6dan if you want to know what a slant 6 is capable of.

 

[breakstuff]

Call me crazy, but I swapped out my 225/904 for a 340/ 833 and kind of regret it. I miss filling up the tank with cheapo 87 octane and getting 23 MPG. Now I dump in 94 and a can of lead and get 12MPG.

 

[Woods74]

Call me crazy, but I swapped out my 225/904 for a 340/ 833 and kind of regret it. I miss filling up the tank with cheapo 87 octane and getting 23 MPG. Now I dump in 94 and a can of lead and get 12MPG.

Mileage depends on a lot of things. Especially driving habits the bigger the engine gets. If your foot is in it, yeah mileage is gonna suck. What cam, carb, and gear ratio are you running? That's pretty thirsty.

I get 17-18 with my magnum 5.9 with a hot cam, on cheapo 87. Desktop dyno says 380 HP/TQ. I plan on installing O/D, which should net a comfy 22-24 highway, maybe more.


Slant 6 vs 360? Bang for buck 360 every time, depending on your goal HP. I love my Magnum, got it for $300, got about $1300 into it with all said and done. Rebuild kit, heads, headers, cam regrind, intake, fuel pump, oil pan, and rebuilt a Quadrajet for it. Looking back I would have just resealed it and ran it. No bore wear at 190k, thanks to modern rings, and I've got a serpentine belt. ;)

 

[kittypancake]

What I infer from the original post is he is questioning can he get 175 or more horsepower from a Slant to equal or outdo a STOCK 360. I agree with the guys who say $ for $ you get more power from a 360. BUT...he doesn't have a 360. ALSO...comparing $/HP gain ratio would only be effecive if all he planned on doing was dyno bench-testing. He would need to add the total cost of a swap.
In short, I believe a relatively low-boost turbo Slant (see Pishta's) would meet his requirements at the lowest cost.

 

[salinasjoel]

If you need the turbo pishta used in his build I have one available

 

[Woods74]

What I infer from the original post is he is questioning can he get 175 or more horsepower from a Slant to equal or outdo a STOCK 360. I agree with the guys who say $ for $ you get more power from a 360. BUT...he doesn't have a 360. ALSO...comparing $/HP gain ratio would only be effecive if all he planned on doing was dyno bench-testing. He would need to add the total cost of a swap.
In short, I believe a relatively low-boost turbo Slant (see Pishta's) would meet his requirements at the lowest cost.

Well said brother.

 

[rmchrgr]

What I infer from the original post is he is questioning can he get 175 or more horsepower from a Slant to equal or outdo a STOCK 360. I agree with the guys who say $ for $ you get more power from a 360. BUT...he doesn't have a 360. ALSO...comparing $/HP gain ratio would only be effecive if all he planned on doing was dyno bench-testing. He would need to add the total cost of a swap.
In short, I believe a relatively low-boost turbo Slant (see Pishta's) would meet his requirements at the lowest cost.

A turbo Slant sounds good on paper but fabbing up an efficient exhaust that actually makes the turbo do what it's supposed to will take cubic dollars. There's really no fabrication involved in putting a 360 in, it's essentially a bolt-in deal with a nominal amount of parts.

Question is can the OP do this stuff himself? If he's asking these type of questions, probably not. At minimum, you'd need a decent welder or someone who has the skills and understanding to do the work for you. Not cheap! Money better spent on horsepower, not horsepower potential.

You could probably buy a running 360 for a few hundred bucks. I bought a short block for $75 once. Sold some stuff off it I didn't need and basically recouped my investment.

An efficient turbo Slant will take way more knowledge/expertise than just bolting in a small block. The 360 could be done in an afternoon with basic tools. Slants are indeed good candidates for a turbo but is it worth the hassle? Probably not.

 

[kittypancake]

A turbo Slant sounds good on paper but fabbing up an efficient exhaust that actually makes the turbo do what it's supposed to will take cubic dollars. There's really no fabrication involved in putting a 360 in, it's essentially a bolt-in deal with a nominal amount of parts.

Question is can the OP do this stuff himself? If he's asking these type of questions, probably not. At minimum, you'd need a decent welder or someone who has the skills and understanding to do the work for you. Not cheap! Money better spent on horsepower, not horsepower potential.

You could probably buy a running 360 for a few hundred bucks. I bought a short block for $75 once. Sold some stuff off it I didn't need and basically recouped my investment.

An efficient turbo Slant will take way more knowledge/expertise than just bolting in a small block. The 360 could be done in an afternoon with basic tools. Slants are indeed good candidates for a turbo but is it worth the hassle? Probably not.

OK...maybe he could buy a decent 360 for a few hundred bucks. Then all he would need is a tranny, tranny linkage, tranny crossmember, driveshaft, steering linkage, exhaust, motor mounts, and wiring. That's just to make it driveable. To make it safe and roadworthy would need V8 torsion bars, possible radiator upgrade, and a possible brake upgrade. This is starting to be quite a shopping list.
Also, getting all this done in an afternoon would be AMAZING!

 

[kittypancake]

I'm assuming it's auto...so my shopping list would differ if it's a standard

 

[Sully1190]

What I infer from the original post is he is questioning can he get 175 or more horsepower from a Slant to equal or outdo a STOCK 360. I agree with the guys who say $ for $ you get more power from a 360. BUT...he doesn't have a 360. ALSO...comparing $/HP gain ratio would only be effecive if all he planned on doing was dyno bench-testing. He would need to add the total cost of a swap.
In short, I believe a relatively low-boost turbo Slant (see Pishta's) would meet his requirements at the lowest cost.

Thanks. That's what I was asking. Essentially, what could I get out of my slant for the money it would take for me to swap in a small block.

Lots of good answers though and lots to think about. Thanks guys.

Question is can the OP do this stuff himself? If he's asking these type of questions, probably not. At minimum, you'd need a decent welder or someone who has the skills and understanding to do the work for you. Not cheap! Money better spent on horsepower, not horsepower potential.

I can weld alright, but I have friends/family who can either way. And that's why I came to you guys. As I said. I'm not neccessarily new to working with my hands. I am, however, new to working with my hands on old American cars. (I had a midget before). So, I figured I'd pick the brains of some professionals, so I'd know whether or not it was a viable option ^^


Thanks for the replies all!

 

[rmchrgr]

OK...maybe he could buy a decent 360 for a few hundred bucks. Then all he would need is a tranny, tranny linkage, tranny crossmember, driveshaft, steering linkage, exhaust, motor mounts, and wiring. That's just to make it driveable. To make it safe and roadworthy would need V8 torsion bars, possible radiator upgrade, and a possible brake upgrade. This is starting to be quite a shopping list.
Also, getting all this done in an afternoon would be AMAZING!

Of course there is going to be things on the periphery that need to be taken care of. But tranny cross member? Never heard of any difference in cross members between a slant and V8.

To my knowledge, all pass. car 904s are the same external dimensions so he doesn't need a drive shaft. The bells are indeed different so yes, he'd need a tranny and linkage. There were two 904s on CL last time I checked, both under a $100. Throttle/kickdown linkage can be sourced from the aftermarket relatively cheaply enough. See here for an example. If I'm not mistaken, there is a lot of interchange in linkage parts, basically anything with a small block/904 can be made to work. I have a box of linkage parts in my garage from various things, I'm sure he could find it all here as well without issue.

Does he absolutely need v8 torsion bars? Not really, lots of guys drive around with 6 cylinder bars and small blocks. Probably not the best set up for road racing but that's a whole other scenario that's not being discussed here. In fact, the Slant 6 w. A/C bars are basically the same as a 318 without a/c.

Only difference in steering linkage might be the center link but AFAIK the only ones that are different are the early As. Not 100% sure on that but 99.9 is close enough.

Does he need a brake upgrade? No. I drive my 340 Duster with front drums. Do they stop like 13" Brembos? No, but the the car stops sufficiently.

Radiator upgrade is a toss up. I mean, would you run the stocker Slant rad with a turbo? What if he has a regular 22" a body rad with a shroud? A 360 will be fine with that.

Not trying to argue minutiae here but a swap to a small block can be done using factory/OE parts relatively easily. That means you should be able to come up with said parts relatively easily, like junkyards, parts stores, web forums etc. As opposed to a turbo Slant where you're making it up as you go.

And just for the sake of argument, people yank out Slants for small blocks all the time and have been doing so for years. Anybody with a modicum of mechanical know how and basic tools should be able do that job. Guys on here would be tripping over their keyboards to help out with tips, etc.

Putting a turbo on a Slant is not something that Chrysler ever did. Should they have? Probably. That being said, you'd really be on your own. Probably not the best way to go about your first major car project.

I understand the idea that doing it on the cheap would mean keeping all the 'peripherals' to a minimum but how do you know all the stuff under the car is good? My own car runs hard but I look under it sometimes and wonder how well the original 40 y.o. parts are holding up. Not real interested in finding out the hard way so I'm planning to replace all the obviously worn stuff soon. I would factor all that into any build no matter what engine is going in.

Plus, it's somewhat common knowledge that when you start putting any sort of power to Slant specific stuff, there's always the increased possibility of breakage because of the nature of those essentially weaker/lighter duty parts. Wouldn't that be the same as putting more power to the existing Slant? Just sayin'.

 

[kittypancake]

Of course there is going to be things on the periphery that need to be taken care of. But tranny cross member? Never heard of any difference in cross members between a slant and V8.

To my knowledge, all pass. car 904s are the same external dimensions so he doesn't need a drive shaft. The bells are indeed different so yes, he'd need a tranny and linkage. There were two 904s on CL last time I checked, both under a $100. Throttle/kickdown linkage can be sourced from the aftermarket relatively cheaply enough. See here for an example. If I'm not mistaken, there is a lot of interchange in linkage parts, basically anything with a small block/904 can be made to work. I have a box of linkage parts in my garage from various things, I'm sure he could find it all here as well without issue.

Does he absolutely need v8 torsion bars? Not really, lots of guys drive around with 6 cylinder bars and small blocks. Probably not the best set up for road racing but that's a whole other scenario that's not being discussed here. In fact, the Slant 6 w. A/C bars are basically the same as a 318 without a/c.

Only difference in steering linkage might be the center link but AFAIK the only ones that are different are the early As. Not 100% sure on that but 99.9 is close enough.

Does he need a brake upgrade? No. I drive my 340 Duster with front drums. Do they stop like 13" Brembos? No, but the the car stops sufficiently.

Radiator upgrade is a toss up. I mean, would you run the stocker Slant rad with a turbo? What if he has a regular 22" a body rad with a shroud? A 360 will be fine with that.

Not trying to argue minutiae here but a swap to a small block can be done using factory/OE parts relatively easily. That means you should be able to come up with said parts relatively easily, like junkyards, parts stores, web forums etc. As opposed to a turbo Slant where you're making it up as you go.

And just for the sake of argument, people yank out Slants for small blocks all the time and have been doing so for years. Anybody with a modicum of mechanical know how and basic tools should be able do that job. Guys on here would be tripping over their keyboards to help out with tips, etc.

Putting a turbo on a Slant is not something that Chrysler ever did. Should they have? Probably. That being said, you'd really be on your own. Probably not the best way to go about your first major car project.

I understand the idea that doing it on the cheap would mean keeping all the 'peripherals' to a minimum but how do you know all the stuff under the car is good? My own car runs hard but I look under it sometimes and wonder how well the original 40 y.o. parts are holding up. Not real interested in finding out the hard way so I'm planning to replace all the obviously worn stuff soon. I would factor all that into any build no matter what engine is going in.

Plus, it's somewhat common knowledge that when you start putting any sort of power to Slant specific stuff, there's always the increased possibility of breakage because of the nature of those essentially weaker/lighter duty parts. Wouldn't that be the same as putting more power to the existing Slant? Just sayin'.

I've read the tranny crossmember + driveshaft need to be changed, it was from a source I felt was knowledgeable, though not 100% sure. I did say "maybe" for the radiator, brakes, and torsion bars. But even if you had a 22" radiator the inlet/outlet position is different, so you have to find a usable hose. Not hard or expensive, just another additional thing. There are aftermarket Slant 6 to Smallblock motor mounts available. If you are only using factory/OE parts, wouldn't that entail changing the K-member? Iwas thinking kick-down linkage when I wrote Tranny linkage. That would be a junkyard item.
Agree 100% that tuning a turbo Slant will take more finesse than a stock 360, and more power naturally leads to harder driving...so more risk for breakage with either choice.
Also, I saw nothing in the OP that suggested modification/fabrication was out of the question.
Now this all just the opinion of a guy (me) who is currently planning a mild Turbo Slant build...there 'personal bias'

 

[kielbasavw]

AND, it would provide you with a new hobby; recuilding transaxles!

Having 60-percent of the Beetle's weight on the drive wheels, and shoving 200 horsepower through a drivetrain that was originally designed for 36 is a recipe for lots of downtime...

But, when it works, I'm sure there is LOT of fun to be had.. for sure!:blob:

There used to be a company called "Transvair" that made a kit to bolt a whole Corvair drivertain, engine and transaxle, into the back of a Beetls.

It had a little "bustle-back" engine cover to hide the 6-cylinder engine, but by the time anybody noticed, it was too late... HEH-HEH!:burnout:

I wanted one... bad.. LOL!

Mendeola builds trans for bugs little fab to fit, but if you break their trans with a type 1 motor they fix for free.

Also there are a lot of tricks and aftermarket parts and gears to handle power. My motor currently has 250ish give or take and can daily drive. All n/a 11: 1cr on 91octane.

My point is small motors have the potential to do anything a big one can do. Sometimes more. The s/6 is designed more as a torque monster but that's the key to a true streeg engine keep the revs at 5500-6k and have fun!

 

[rmchrgr]

I've read the tranny crossmember + driveshaft need to be changed, it was from a source I felt was knowledgeable, though not 100% sure. I did say "maybe" for the radiator, brakes, and torsion bars. But even if you had a 22" radiator the inlet/outlet position is different, so you have to find a usable hose. Not hard or expensive, just another additional thing. There are aftermarket Slant 6 to Smallblock motor mounts available. If you are only using factory/OE parts, wouldn't that entail changing the K-member? Iwas thinking kick-down linkage when I wrote Tranny linkage. That would be a junkyard item.
Agree 100% that tuning a turbo Slant will take more finesse than a stock 360, and more power naturally leads to harder driving...so more risk for breakage with either choice.
Also, I saw nothing in the OP that suggested modification/fabrication was out of the question.
Now this all just the opinion of a guy (me) who is currently planning a mild Turbo Slant build...there 'personal bias'

All good, just making my point. There are always going to be pitfalls/conflicts/compromises when you start altering/modifying any type of factory equipment. My one caveat is that it would probably be more realistic to do the small block because it's all right there in front of you, you just need to go out and get it.

Adding a turbo to an older engine is literally an exercise in engineering. Obviously that's fine in itself if that's what you want. But without a doubt, I think the OP would likely rather get it done and drive rather than trying to sort out all kinds of crazy crap that no one has any easy answers to.

It's OK to think big on the Slant but if it were me, I'd be looking for a 360. It will get the job done so much easier and can be easily upgraded later on down the road if desired. There's really no comparison between the two.