Performance Questions 225 vs. 360

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I concede that your right a N/A 360 cannot be built to make 500+hp and be streetable and be done cheaper than a turbo /6, under those rules you win.
 
Yes the turbo sixes are Kool I'd love too have one if my Cuda was a /6 I might think of doing it but not everyone wants to mess or has the ability to go turbo but you still comparing apples to oranges ( turbo to N/A ) take that last car and drop in a stock 5.9 with a turbo thrown on like the six in the video and it would walk away from the turbo six car and be just as streetable as the /6 car, Mod for Mod, $ for $ the 8 will always be better.
I agree with you if the OP'er wants to be faster than even one mildest of 360 he'll need some kind of power adder.

Don't you think that comparing the output of a 225 cubic inch N/A engine to a V8 that has 360 cubic inches is apples to oranges?

I do.

There has to be some sort of method to achieve parity, because giving one engine a sixty percent larger swept volume (225 X 1.6 = 360) is not exactly apples/apples, is it?

In this case, it's turbocharging.

225 + hairdryer = a fighting chance against an engine that is 60% larger.

Doesn't that make sense? It does to me...

YMMV...
 
I concede that your right a N/A 360 cannot be built to make 500+hp and be streetable and be done cheaper than a turbo /6, under those rules you win.


I am not trying to "WIN" anything; I just think it's interesting to compare different ways of doing things.

I will concede that the complexity of putting a turbo on a slant six (or, any engine, for that matter) is one GOOD reason not to do it. Look at the pictures of our carburetor and all the band-aids we need and hoops we have to jump through to get this thing to work.


It's NOT cheap nor is it easy.

But, it's effective IF you have the patience to deal with all the BS.

The 500 hp motors are not that different from a 300 hp motor; they need forged pistons and aftermarket rods, but not much else; maybe a better header. Mainly, they just need more boost and the ability to live (and, not detonate) under the increased boost.

But overall, I don't think these motors are that expensive to build.

I'd LOVE to see Ryan's engine in Guzzi Mark's 2350-pound Valiant.

Talk about a flyer...

Johnny Dart's beautiful slant six just needs a hairdryer with his existing 4bbl, a different cam and a ported, big-valve head (may already have that last item,) to run head-to-head with his 360 (I would bet) but, I don't think he wants to do it.

It IS more money, and complication, for sure...

But, I feel just as sure that it would work.

Probably never know...

Thanks for being realistic!!!:cheers:
 

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The OP'er main question should he spend $1000-$1500 dropping in a 360/5.9 or could he spent that money on a go fast parts for the /6 and would it get him in the 360 power range. There 3 low K 5.9 in my area for around $500 that leave $1000 to install it and have 280-320 hp on tap (depending on Headers or manifolds), the 5.9 in my Cherokee
Is fast in a A-Body that weighs 1000lbs less should be a rocket more than enough and be streetable sure a turbos /6 is an option but really dollar for dollar a low K running 5.9 is the best bang for the buck.
 
Here's a low budget turbo slant build
Super six intake $100
Holley 390 or 500 two barrel modified with hanger 18 mods $150
Pishta U bend pipe and flanges( high end price) $150
Walbro 392 fuel pump $100
Mallory 4309 fuel reg $ 100
Cold side piping and coupler kit under $100
Hotside piping $150 maximum
Carb hat $150
Grand national turbo or similar model $250
Different lines and fittings $150
That comes to a grand total of $1400 alot of parts can be found cheaper
I'd also get a a/f gauge but one isn't need but helps a ton when it's time to tune
This setup would be good for about 10 psi of boost and would probably net around 250hp
IMG_20121005_153227.jpg
 
Here's a low budget turbo slant build
Super six intake $100
Holley 390 or 500 two barrel modified with hanger 18 mods $150
Pishta U bend pipe and flanges( high end price) $150
Walbro 392 fuel pump $100
Mallory 4309 fuel reg $ 100
Cold side piping and coupler kit under $100
Hotside piping $150 maximum
Carb hat $150
Grand national turbo or similar model $250
Different lines and fittings $150
That comes to a grand total of $1400 alot of parts can be found cheaper
I'd also get a a/f gauge but one isn't need but helps a ton when it's time to tune
This setup would be good for about 10 psi of boost and would probably net around 250hp
IMG_20121005_153227.jpg

That's a pretty good bang for the buck setup, Aaron. I was wondering if an alky injector would enable another 5 psi of boost for another 30 hp? I have Snowperformance Boost Coolers on both of my cars, but at $300.00+, they are getting a little expensive. I think there are spray injectors for less money than that, burt I don't know where.

What do you think about that idea?

Thanks for the information!!!:blob:
 
That's a pretty good bang for the buck setup, Aaron. I was wondering if an alky injector would enable another 5 psi of boost for another 30 hp? I have Snowperformance Boost Coolers on both of my cars, but at $300.00+, they are getting a little expensive. I think there are spray injectors for less money than that, burt I don't know where.

What do you think about that idea?

Thanks for the information!!!:blob:

Bill everything I've read and researched suggested water injection isn't needed till one starts going over 12psi of boost in fact I don't have mine como on till 10psi

How's things going on your end Bill? I've gotten most of the bugs worked out of the valiant but the fuel tank still has to be dropped and the tank needs a good cleaning which I'm hoping to get started on that in the next day or two other then that and the weather is getting to cold to do much testing I can't get the car to hook up to the pavement
Damn I should put a small block in and maybe I wouldn't have this problem :burnout:
 
BENCH RACING! The cheapest kind of racing there, and you can drink a cup of while you're doing it!
 
Bill everything I've read and researched suggested water injection isn't needed till one starts going over 12psi of boost in fact I don't have mine como on till 10psi

How's things going on your end Bill? I've gotten most of the bugs worked out of the valiant but the fuel tank still has to be dropped and the tank needs a good cleaning which I'm hoping to get started on that in the next day or two other then that and the weather is getting to cold to do much testing I can't get the car to hook up to the pavement
Damn I should put a small block in and maybe I wouldn't have this problem :burnout:

I agree with all of that, but 15 pounds was the intended goal, which WOULD benefit from spray. (10 + 5 = 15)

The idea was that at 15 pounds of boost, maybe 280 HP would be a reality, which would fit the requrement of equalling a stock, N/A 360's output.

I thought I'd remembered reading of a cheaper alternative to a SnowPerformance Boost Cooler ($330.00) Stage I unit.

What do you use?
 
1974 Duster, warmed over slant six = A turd.
1974 Duster warmed over 360 = A tire burning,street hooligan.

Until you get anywhere close to putting a turbo slant in your car (which I got $ that it never happens) this thread is a complete Joke !!!!!!

You're right. I should just run out and start throwing things in my car without checking with the experts first ;)
 
The OP'er main question should he spend $1000-$1500 dropping in a 360/5.9 or could he spent that money on a go fast parts for the /6 and would it get him in the 360 power range. There 3 low K 5.9 in my area for around $500 that leave $1000 to install it and have 280-320 hp on tap (depending on Headers or manifolds), the 5.9 in my Cherokee
Is fast in a A-Body that weighs 1000lbs less should be a rocket more than enough and be streetable sure a turbos /6 is an option but really dollar for dollar a low K running 5.9 is the best bang for the buck.

Indeed. Yet, I think they're still going and just ignoring us at this point. But like I said, I like having the info. I might do a turbo six one day just for fun. It's good to know both what they can do, and how it all stacks up for the money. It's definitely interesting.
 
Here's a low budget turbo slant build
Super six intake $100
Holley 390 or 500 two barrel modified with hanger 18 mods $150
Pishta U bend pipe and flanges( high end price) $150
Walbro 392 fuel pump $100
Mallory 4309 fuel reg $ 100
Cold side piping and coupler kit under $100
Hotside piping $150 maximum
Carb hat $150
Grand national turbo or similar model $250
Different lines and fittings $150
That comes to a grand total of $1400 alot of parts can be found cheaper
I'd also get a a/f gauge but one isn't need but helps a ton when it's time to tune
This setup would be good for about 10 psi of boost and would probably net around 250hp

Thank you! This was very helpful. I will definitely be archiving this information.
 

A complete joke...that continues to get get re-read and multiple posts by by the one who dubbed it as such :D

I'm loving the debate and getting new info...

Now that the OP'er has stated he may not keep this car...I've changed my opinion...on the question of whether or not to modify the Slant or swap in a 360, I now say, "NEITHER!" Fix what you have until you've decided.
 
A complete joke...that continues to get get re-read and multiple posts by by the one who dubbed it as such :D

I'm loving the debate and getting new info...

Now that the OP'er has stated he may not keep this car...I've changed my opinion...on the question of whether or not to modify the Slant or swap in a 360, I now say, "NEITHER!" Fix what you have until you've decided.

Well there's nothing necessarily broken about what I have, and I mean long-term on the getting rid of it. I'll have it another year, at least. I was getting the info because I was about to paint the engine bay, so I was going to have the engine out anyways. ^^ Figured it'd be a good time to do something if I was going to.
 
Well there's nothing necessarily broken about what I have, and I mean long-term on the getting rid of it. I'll have it another year, at least. I was getting the info because I was about to paint the engine bay, so I was going to have the engine out anyways. ^^ Figured it'd be a good time to do something if I was going to.

Since you got it out and don't seem to care too much about power, swap on a super intake and exhaust and a upgrade the cam to even the mildest performance cam got to be an improvement over stock might give you 25hp extra but that would be an almost 25% improvement make a little more fun to drive.
 
So yes,of course we can agree that supercharging,or throwing the wife's hair dryer on "Any" motor,is going to improve the HP. Goes without saying.

So,in the event you want to build your slant motor (without Ma's hair dryer).
Here is an example,with my build.
225-30 over
Ported/Shaved head .100
Oversize valves
340 springs
9:5-1 compression
Erson camshaft
Clifford intake water cooled/heated
Clifford intake
Ede 500cfm
FBO elec ignition (I designed with Don).
1" Phenolic spacer
2into1 2.25"exh 40 series Flowmaster.

I didn't cut any corners with this motor,and it is a blast to drive.I kept the /6 in because of the rarity of the car,1-23.
How often do you see a 1965 factory Hurst 4spd /6 conv Dart ?
In reality,if the car wasn't so rare,it would have had a hot little small block in it years ago.
Anyways,I wanted to post a pic of my slant car,to let you know I'm not some kind of hack. I think these are great motors,and the nostalgia factor is definately there. With the 4spd,this car is a hoot to drive,and yes,I terrorize the neighborhood on a regular basis.

The possibilities are endless. A plan and a budget is all it takes.
Maybe just clean/tune up what you have for now,and see where the road takes you.
 

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Having said that,this is a different animal...:D
 

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So yes,of course we can agree that supercharging,or throwing the wife's hair dryer on "Any" motor,is going to improve the HP. Goes without saying.

So,in the event you want to build your slant motor (without Ma's hair dryer).
Here is an example,with my build.
225-30 over
Ported/Shaved head .100
Oversize valves
340 springs
9:5-1 compression
Erson camshaft
Clifford intake water cooled/heated
Clifford intake
Ede 500cfm
FBO elec ignition (I designed with Don).
1" Phenolic spacer
2into1 2.25"exh 40 series Flowmaster.

I didn't cut any corners with this motor,and it is a blast to drive.I kept the /6 in because of the rarity of the car,1-23.
How often do you see a 1965 factory Hurst 4spd /6 conv Dart ?
In reality,if the car wasn't so rare,it would have had a hot little small block in it years ago.
Anyways,I wanted to post a pic of my slant car,to let you know I'm not some kind of hack. I think these are great motors,and the nostalgia factor is definately there. With the 4spd,this car is a hoot to drive,and yes,I terrorize the neighborhood on a regular basis.

The possibilities are endless. A plan and a budget is all it takes.
Maybe just clean/tune up what you have for now,and see where the road takes you.

Thanks for the pictures! You surely have two great-looking Mopars there. I really like the bumblebee stripe on the convertible!
 
Two very sexual mopars, Johnny. That convertible is drop dead gorgeous. I have never doubted your skill or opinion, don't worry. ^^
 
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