Run electric fans all the time?

[DrCharles]

I have Contour fans on the 26" rad keeping the 451 cool in my '72 Dart. But they do seem to interfere somewhat with the airflow at low speeds on the street. Since my thermostat is nominally 180, I have to use a 195/185 switch so the fans will turn off once they start (can't be below the stat temp). The switch is mounted in the upper hose a few inches from the elbow since it was mechanically inconvenient to put it in the water pump. My Autometer mechanical gauge (in the water pump) shows the fans coming on at 198 and off at 192 which is acceptable. (If I lock the fans on while idling and stationary, temp will fall to t-stat minimum of 182).

I'm wondering if there would be any value to running the fans on a low speed whenever the engine is running, and the temp switch control them for full speed. That will keep the idle temp lower, and also help the airflow while driving. It's a simple circuit requiring one relay and a big-*** 0.5 - 1 ohm resistor (maybe the fan-cooled nichrome unit that came with it), both of which I have.

Thoughts?

 

[5.7 hemi]

I think for what you’re wanting to do, a PWM controller would best.

 

[512Stroker]

I have Contour fans on the 26" rad keeping the 451 cool in my '72 Dart. But they do seem to interfere somewhat with the airflow at low speeds on the street. Since my thermostat is nominally 180, I have to use a 195/185 switch so the fans will turn off once they start (can't be below the stat temp). The switch is mounted in the upper hose a few inches from the elbow since it was mechanically inconvenient to put it in the water pump. My Autometer mechanical gauge (in the water pump) shows the fans coming on at 198 and off at 192 which is acceptable. (If I lock the fans on while idling and stationary, temp will fall to t-stat minimum of 182).

I'm wondering if there would be any value to running the fans on a low speed whenever the engine is running, and the temp switch control them for full speed. That will keep the idle temp lower, and also help the airflow while driving. It's a simple circuit requiring one relay and a big-*** 0.5 - 1 ohm resistor (maybe the fan-cooled nichrome unit that came with it), both of which I have.

Thoughts?

I run the ceiling fan in our bedroom non stop.
Maintains alot more even temp that way.
Same thing applies to your engine.

 

[DrCharles]

I think for what you’re wanting to do, a PWM controller would best.

I agree, but I have read enough bad reviews (unreliable parts, poor quality connectors) that I'm reluctant to buy one. And right now I'm feeling too lazy to design and build my own, although it wouldn't be that complicated

As for running them all the time, they do move a lot of air, but also draw a lot of current (something like 40 amps for the pair at full speed)... I'll try the "keep-alive" resistor with a pair of husky clip-leads and if the concept works, then I can do the relay install

 

[5.7 hemi]

Derale makes a really good PWM controller also check out Rainbow Products.


Having the fans run constantly is dumb, puts undue load on the alternator and when going about 35mph, fan(s) aren’t doing much.

 

[DrCharles]

Derale makes a really good PWM controller also check out Rainbow Products.


Having the fans run constantly is dumb, puts undue load on the alternator and when going about 35mph, fan(s) aren’t doing much.

I'll look at Rainbow,thanks. There are decidedly mixed reviews on the Derale too...

It would be "dumb" to have them running at full speed all the time, but that is not what I'm talking about. 8-10 amps for low speed is not much of a load. And as I mentioned in my original post, I want to turn them to lower the air resistance, and keep the coolant temps more constant.

 

[72bluNblu]

Don’t run the fans all the time. At anything more than 35 mph they’ll be restricting airflow. The speed of the car moves more air through the radiator than the fans will at that point, having the fans spinning will cause more turbulence. Plus it draws a ton of current, which will cause the alternator to run at a higher output. Which steals more horsepower to turn the alternator. All just a big waste.

I run a Dakota digital controller, it works great. Been on my car since I installed my contour fans 6 years ago. This is the current version, mine was a 2750 but the updated version is the 2800

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/dak-pac2800bt

 

[512Stroker]

I run the ceiling fan in our bedroom non stop.

Maintains alot more even temp that way.
Same thing applies to your engine.

https://www.powernationtv.com/post/...y+$92G+Ram+1500+TRX+Launch+Edition+In+3+Hours
Lighten up 72
The more air the better.
There is noway you can dispute that.

 

[72bluNblu]

Lighten up 72
The more air the better.
There is noway you can dispute that.

I'm not disputing that more air is better, more air IS better.

And you'll get more air with the fans NOT running when the car is moving at speed.

At best, running the fan at speed is a waste of power. At worst, running the fan at speed is actually interfering with the incoming air because the volume of incoming air will exceed the volume of air that the fan is moving. My car runs colder at 50mph with the fans off than it does when the fans are running. With my fans set on a digital controller they pretty much never come on once I'm going more than 35mph for more than a few minutes, even when it's 100°+ out. It means more air is getting through without the fan on.

 

[DrCharles]

At worst, running the fan at speed is actually interfering with the incoming air because the volume of incoming air will exceed the volume of air that the fan is moving.

When the fans are off, they are moving zero air, so the volume of incoming air will always be greater than zero... so that doesn't really mean much.

My car runs colder at 50mph with the fans off than it does when the fans are running. With my fans set on a digital controller they pretty much never come on once I'm going more than 35mph

Now that is useful information, and the way it's supposed to work. But my car definitely runs cooler on the highway with the fans turning than with them off.
I'll just try it with a jumpered resistor for low speed and see - the Contour fans just look like they are a significant obstruction when they're not turning (large motors, short stubby blades, strong magnets in the motors).

 

[512Stroker]

I'm not disputing that more air is better, more air IS better.

And you'll get more air with the fans NOT running when the car is moving at speed.

At best, running the fan at speed is a waste of power. At worst, running the fan at speed is actually interfering with the incoming air because the volume of incoming air will exceed the volume of air that the fan is moving. My car runs colder at 50mph with the fans off than it does when the fans are running. With my fans set on a digital controller they pretty much never come on once I'm going more than 35mph for more than a few minutes, even when it's 100°+ out. It means more air is getting through without the fan on.

I wouldn't know I do not use electric fan(s)
Moved on from them years ago.

 

[72bluNblu]

When the fans are off, they are moving zero air, so the volume of incoming air will always be greater than zero... so that doesn't really mean much.

You're thinking about that wrong. The Contour fans can move about 3,500 cfm on low speed and 5,000 cfm on the high speed. What I'm saying is that the volume of incoming air when the car is moving is more at speed is more than 3,500 cfm. It's more than 5,000 cfm. So there's no point to run the fans at that point, the incoming air alone will do a better job than even running the fans on high. Having the fan spinning disrupts the air more than having them off. And even if that wasn't true, running the fans when the incoming air exceeds their capacity on even their highest setting is just a waste of energy.

Now that is useful information, and the way it's supposed to work. But my car definitely runs cooler on the highway with the fans turning than with them off.
I'll just try it with a jumpered resistor for low speed and see - the Contour fans just look like they are a significant obstruction when they're not turning (large motors, short stubby blades, strong magnets in the motors).

It shouldn't. At freeway speeds my car cools down to the thermostat temperature even when it's 100°F outside. The fans themselves are not a significant obstruction at speed, they're designed not to be running when the car is moving at speed. Less than 35 mph or so sure, the fans will need to run because the airflow through the front of the car isn't enough. But faster than that you shouldn't need them at all if everything else in your cooling system is working properly. That's how those fans work on a Ford Contour, and those things have very little grille area (which is why they needed such a good fan).

I don't like the thermostatic switches. Seems like a lot of problems come out them. I haven't had any issues with my Dakota Digital fan controller, and I can program my fans to start and stop at almost any temperature I like.

I wouldn't know I do not use electric fan(s)
Moved on from them years ago.

If you wouldn't know then why comment?

Funny that the auto industry as a whole did exactly the opposite and moved on from the mechanical fans.

If you run electric fans capable of moving the CFM needed for your car, and control them well, then electric fans will be more efficient than a mechanical fan. That's the big reason that the vast majority of cars use electrics now. People have issues with aftermarket conversions to electric fans because they either don't buy fans that are capable of moving enough CFM, they don't wire them correctly or provide for enough power, or they don't control them properly.

 

[5.7 hemi]

Hell, my Cummins fan doesn’t engage till around 217 and those move, I heard, 25000 cfm.

 

[512Stroker]

You're thinking about that wrong. The Contour fans can move about 3,500 cfm on low speed and 5,000 cfm on the high speed. What I'm saying is that the volume of incoming air when the car is moving is more at speed is more than 3,500 cfm. It's more than 5,000 cfm. So there's no point to run the fans at that point, the incoming air alone will do a better job than even running the fans on high. Having the fan spinning disrupts the air more than having them off. And even if that wasn't true, running the fans when the incoming air exceeds their capacity on even their highest setting is just a waste of energy.



It shouldn't. At freeway speeds my car cools down to the thermostat temperature even when it's 100°F outside. The fans themselves are not a significant obstruction at speed, they're designed not to be running when the car is moving at speed. Less than 35 mph or so sure, the fans will need to run because the airflow through the front of the car isn't enough. But faster than that you shouldn't need them at all if everything else in your cooling system is working properly. That's how those fans work on a Ford Contour, and those things have very little grille area (which is why they needed such a good fan).

I don't like the thermostatic switches. Seems like a lot of problems come out them. I haven't had any issues with my Dakota Digital fan controller, and I can program my fans to start and stop at almost any temperature I like.



If you wouldn't know then why comment?

Funny that the auto industry as a whole did exactly the opposite and moved on from the mechanical fans.

If you run electric fans capable of moving the CFM needed for your car, and control them well, then electric fans will be more efficient than a mechanical fan. That's the big reason that the vast majority of cars use electrics now. People have issues with aftermarket conversions to electric fans because they either don't buy fans that are capable of moving enough CFM, they don't wire them correctly or provide for enough power, or they don't control them properly.

I commented because I have alot of experience with electric fans. I tried to make them work in BB and SB applications. Add A/C and your done
- They are expensive
- At best they dont move enough air
- They tax the **** out your battery/charging system which makes you spend more $ money on expensive electrical components.
- The modern day car bit does not hold water it is not apples to apples in Engineering.
You will never convince myself and many others on this forum that electric fans will out perform a belt driven fan.
Dont get me wrong they have their applications and now and then you may get one to work but over all they are not work the money and effort.

 

[goldduster318]

I commented because I have alot of experience with electric fans. I tried to make them work in BB and SB applications. Add A/C and your done
- They are expensive
- At best they dont move enough air
- They tax the **** out your battery/charging system which makes you spend more $ money on expensive electrical components.
- The modern day car bit does not hold water it is not apples to apples in Engineering.
You will never convince myself and many others on this forum that electric fans will out perform a belt driven fan.
Dont get me wrong they have their applications and now and then you may get one to work but over all they are not work the money and effort.

Also have the Contour fan here. The controller was the only expensive part, it was $35 for the fan assy. I don't even use the high speed on the fan ever even at the Woodward Dream Cruise on a high 80's day.

Yes, you can't run a stock charging system. The stock system is pure garbage anyway, long tortured path, undersized wiring, alternators with poor total and at idle output. It should be changed on everyone's car since they basically can't even keep the headlights fully bright at idle with nothing else on. Of course you could upgrade your charging system for about $150 if you know what you are doing and have no more issues.

Cooling systems didn't really change too much but you do need a fan/shroud that fits your radiator. There may be a slight advantage to a crossflow radiator but otherwise it's not terribly different. The air still has to flow through the radiator opening on an A-body. Of course it's also easy to size your radiator wrong or build a thermally inefficient engine.

For example, my uncle has a 2009 Chevy 2500 HD pickup that rolls down the road at almost 23000 lbs on a daily basis towing a skid loader. This truck has electric fans, stays cool, has the A/C blasting, and has 230,000 miles on it. It stays cool no problem.

The mechanical fan is a drag that is costing you HP, fuel mileage, etc, and it's turning when it doesn't need to. Generating 40A to run a bigger electric fan costs about 1hp with efficiency losses from the alternator, worst case 2hp. The mechanical fan is easily 10-30hp depending on what you have. And chances are at RPM the electric fan is off.

Back to the original poster - Sounds like your system works fine. I doubt you gain anything by cooling the temp down below what it runs at with no intervention.

 

[72bluNblu]

I commented because I have alot of experience with electric fans. I tried to make them work in BB and SB applications. Add A/C and your done
- They are expensive
- At best they dont move enough air
- They tax the **** out your battery/charging system which makes you spend more $ money on expensive electrical components.
- The modern day car bit does not hold water it is not apples to apples in Engineering.
You will never convince myself and many others on this forum that electric fans will out perform a belt driven fan.
Dont get me wrong they have their applications and now and then you may get one to work but over all they are not work the money and effort.

It sounds like you have a lot of experience setting up poorly thought out electric fan systems. If someone put a 500 cfm carb on an 800 hp engine with 5/16 fuel line and a stock mechanical pump would you blame the carburetor for the lack of performance? I bet you wouldn’t.

That’s basically the same thing most people do when they try to switch to an electric fan. They choose an expensive fan rather than one that will move enough CFM for their engine. Then they hook it into the stock wire harness with undersized wires and an underrated alternator. Basically, they guarantee that the fan won’t be able to perform even to its design specs because it won’t pull enough power. And then they control the fan with the cheapest thermostatic switch they can find. And when the car runs hot they blame the fan, just like you’re doing.

I ran a mechanical fan on my Duster before switching to the contour electric fans. The electric fan system on the car now outperforms the mechanical fan it replaced. I daily drive my car in air temperatures that are frequently 100*+, I’ve never had an overheating issue even sitting in stop and go traffic.

And I’m not worried about convincing you or anyone else. The science and the evidence is on my side. Whether or not you accept that doesn’t change a thing. The fact that you say I’ll never convince you, that’s there’s no amount of science or evidence that will get you to accept the facts says more about you than it does anything else. Goldduster318 is right on, the contour system is not that expensive. The stock wiring has to be upgraded on most of these cars anyway. And an upgraded alternator steals far less power than a mechanical fan.

Also have the Contour fan here. The controller was the only expensive part, it was $35 for the fan assy. I don't even use the high speed on the fan ever even at the Woodward Dream Cruise on a high 80's day.

Yes, you can't run a stock charging system. The stock system is pure garbage anyway, long tortured path, undersized wiring, alternators with poor total and at idle output. It should be changed on everyone's car since they basically can't even keep the headlights fully bright at idle with nothing else on. Of course you could upgrade your charging system for about $150 if you know what you are doing and have no more issues.

Cooling systems didn't really change too much but you do need a fan/shroud that fits your radiator. There may be a slight advantage to a crossflow radiator but otherwise it's not terribly different. The air still has to flow through the radiator opening on an A-body. Of course it's also easy to size your radiator wrong or build a thermally inefficient engine.

For example, my uncle has a 2009 Chevy 2500 HD pickup that rolls down the road at almost 23000 lbs on a daily basis towing a skid loader. This truck has electric fans, stays cool, has the A/C blasting, and has 230,000 miles on it. It stays cool no problem.

The mechanical fan is a drag that is costing you HP, fuel mileage, etc, and it's turning when it doesn't need to. Generating 40A to run a bigger electric fan costs about 1hp with efficiency losses from the alternator, worst case 2hp. The mechanical fan is easily 10-30hp depending on what you have. And chances are at RPM the electric fan is off.

Back to the original poster - Sounds like your system works fine. I doubt you gain anything by cooling the temp down below what it runs at with no intervention.

Exactly! 100% right on.

 

[cudajames]

Interesting. I've recently changed to electric fans and still dialing it in

Currently my puller fans run all the time - freeway etc. So if I am understanding this correctly, at speed as the outside air pushes into the radiator the turning fans become an obstruction on the air passing through? Controlling the fans, so they are not running at speed, helps with the air passing through?

 

[goldduster318]

Interesting. I've recently changed to electric fans and still dialing it in

Currently my puller fans run all the time - freeway etc. So if I am understanding this correctly, at speed as the outside air pushes into the radiator the turning fans become an obstruction on the air passing through? Controlling the fans, so they are not running at speed, helps with the air passing through?

Its safer to say its not doing any good running them at freeway speeds. If your radiator is correctly sized, you should be able to drive 45mph forever and never have them turn on even on the hottest day.

 

[72bluNblu]

Interesting. I've recently changed to electric fans and still dialing it in

Currently my puller fans run all the time - freeway etc. So if I am understanding this correctly, at speed as the outside air pushes into the radiator the turning fans become an obstruction on the air passing through? Controlling the fans, so they are not running at speed, helps with the air passing through?

Its safer to say its not doing any good running them at freeway speeds. If your radiator is correctly sized, you should be able to drive 45mph forever and never have them turn on even on the hottest day.

Exactly. It's like I said earlier. At best, running the fans when the car is moving at speed is a waste of energy. At worst, it's possible that running the fans at speed is at least partially obstructing the free flow of air. Although even in that "worst case" scenario you'd still be moving the amount of air the fans are rated for, which should still be more than enough to keep the car cool. It just might be less air flow than you would get through the radiator without the fans.

Basically it's just inefficient. Once the incoming air reaches the same volume as what the fan can move there's no reason to run the fan. One of the biggest advantages of using an electric fan is that you can turn it off when it isn't needed, so it's not constantly stealing power like a mechanical fan is.

 

[DrCharles]

At worst, it's possible that running the fans at speed is at least partially obstructing the free flow of air. Although even in that "worst case" scenario you'd still be moving the amount of air the fans are rated for,

I don't agree that running fans are an obstruction. A fan that's stationary has more back pressure (to the air being forced through the grille) than one that is turning, since energy has to be expended to spin the fan and motor.

Not only that, the fan rating is at a specific back pressure on its output side (probably zero for pullers open to the engine compartment), and (AFAIK) assumes zero obstruction and atmospheric pressure on its inlet side. While driving at highway speed, the pressure of the ram air coming into the fan (after passing through the grille and radiator) is above atmospheric so if the fan's running it should move more air than its nominal rating.

However. It is true that there should be no need to run the fan at highway speeds. So why use a mechanical fan... which is turning all the time, even through a viscous fan clutch which consumes some power?

So either my t-stat is too restrictive (I just got a Milodon 16406 high-flow 180F to try) or my old copper-brass 26" rad isn't cutting it.

I started with a bare rolling shell, so I designed and built the entire wiring system from headlights to reverse lights. My 130 amp alt puts out 95 amps at idle. I can spare 40 amps to run the Contours when they're needed Not only that, the clearance to the core is so tight that even with the short Hayden fan clutch I don't feel comfortable running that big steel finger-remover.

 

[Phreakish]

I don't agree that running fans are an obstruction. A fan that's stationary has more back pressure (to the air being forced through the grille) than one that is turning, since energy has to be expended to spin the fan and motor.

Not true. A windmilling fan blade will create FAR more drag than a stationary blade. The force created by the 'wind milling' is caused by lift created by the fan blades, and that lift creates drag. This is why propeller driven aircraft with controllable pitch propellers 'feather' the blades in the event of powerplant failure. In the radio controlled airplane world, motor controllers have built-in 'brakes' to stop the prop which helps reduce gliding drag too.

 

[72bluNblu]

I don't agree that running fans are an obstruction. A fan that's stationary has more back pressure (to the air being forced through the grille) than one that is turning, since energy has to be expended to spin the fan and motor.

Not only that, the fan rating is at a specific back pressure on its output side (probably zero for pullers open to the engine compartment), and (AFAIK) assumes zero obstruction and atmospheric pressure on its inlet side. While driving at highway speed, the pressure of the ram air coming into the fan (after passing through the grille and radiator) is above atmospheric so if the fan's running it should move more air than its nominal rating.

However. It is true that there should be no need to run the fan at highway speeds. So why use a mechanical fan... which is turning all the time, even through a viscous fan clutch which consumes some power?

So either my t-stat is too restrictive (I just got a Milodon 16406 high-flow 180F to try) or my old copper-brass 26" rad isn't cutting it.

I started with a bare rolling shell, so I designed and built the entire wiring system from headlights to reverse lights. My 130 amp alt puts out 95 amps at idle. I can spare 40 amps to run the Contours when they're needed Not only that, the clearance to the core is so tight that even with the short Hayden fan clutch I don't feel comfortable running that big steel finger-remover.

The spinning blades create more drag, this is a fluid dynamics fact. They also create turbulence, which can slow the incoming air because of how it disrupts it. That last bit is specific to the particular radiator/fan/shroud arrangement, the speed of the blades, the volume and speed of incoming air vs outgoing etc... Which is why I say "at best" and "at worst". Unless you put it in a wind tunnel you can't know 100% for sure.

But given the efficiency to which modern cars are designed, you had better believe that if it was more efficient to run the fans all the time that's how modern cars would work. Especially since it would be a lot easier to just constantly run the fans than it is to program fan control parameters into the ECU.

Not true. A windmilling fan blade will create FAR more drag than a stationary blade. The force created by the 'wind milling' is caused by lift created by the fan blades, and that lift creates drag. This is why propeller driven aircraft with controllable pitch propellers 'feather' the blades in the event of powerplant failure. In the radio controlled airplane world, motor controllers have built-in 'brakes' to stop the prop which helps reduce gliding drag too.

Yessir. And the fans on the contour motors do not windmill when the are not running.

@512Stroker, you can disagree if you want, but the simple fact is that if you choose an electric fan that moves enough air to cool your engine, supply that fan with enough power to run as it's designed and control the run time of the fan accurately the electric fan will work better and steal less horsepower from your engine. That's the engineering that makes it work on new cars, it's no different for a retro-fit. If you pay attention and build an appropriate system for an aftermarket upgrade on one of these cars it will work just as well. It's no different than picking a carburetor and building a fuel system to supply a higher horsepower engine. If you run an undersized carb and starve it for fuel, you get a poor result. You wouldn't say all carburetors are bad in that case, you'd just get a bigger one and supply it better. Same deal with an electric fan. People fail with their electric fan retro-fits because they either don't pick fans that move enough air, they don't wire them appropriately, or they don't control them accurately. Or some combination of all of those factors.

 

[66jim]

Well both types have plus/minus things about them. Electric is quieter on cruise, less of a paracite, cools better at idle, water pump lasts longer? but more to go wrong with electric than mechanical.

 

[512Stroker]

The spinning blades create more drag, this is a fluid dynamics fact. They also create turbulence, which can slow the incoming air because of how it disrupts it. That last bit is specific to the particular radiator/fan/shroud arrangement, the speed of the blades, the volume and speed of incoming air vs outgoing etc... Which is why I say "at best" and "at worst". Unless you put it in a wind tunnel you can't know 100% for sure.

But given the efficiency to which modern cars are designed, you had better believe that if it was more efficient to run the fans all the time that's how modern cars would work. Especially since it would be a lot easier to just constantly run the fans than it is to program fan control parameters into the ECU.



Yessir. And the fans on the contour motors do not windmill when the are not running.

@512Stroker, you can disagree if you want, but the simple fact is that if you choose an electric fan that moves enough air to cool your engine, supply that fan with enough power to run as it's designed and control the run time of the fan accurately the electric fan will work better and steal less horsepower from your engine. That's the engineering that makes it work on new cars, it's no different for a retro-fit. If you pay attention and build an appropriate system for an aftermarket upgrade on one of these cars it will work just as well. It's no different than picking a carburetor and building a fuel system to supply a higher horsepower engine. If you run an undersized carb and starve it for fuel, you get a poor result. You wouldn't say all carburetors are bad in that case, you'd just get a bigger one and supply it better. Same deal with an electric fan. People fail with their electric fan retro-fits because they either don't pick fans that move enough air, they don't wire them appropriately, or they don't control them accurately. Or some combination of all of those factors.

Thanks but no thanks
I will stay with my good old reliable belt driven 7 blade fan they just work
Like I told you before I have been that route spent the money, upgraded electricial it just is not worth it.
I know all the modern day crap blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada
I am old school and proud of it I dont/want all that bullshit
And yes I do have several modern vehicles that have electric fans and they work very well, but not in my classic cruiser.

 

[TurboGLH]

Thanks but no thanks
I will stay with my good old reliable belt driven 7 blade fan they just work
Like I told you before I have been that route spent the money, upgraded electricial it just is not worth it.
I know all the modern day crap blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada
I am old school and proud of it I dont/want all that bullshit
And yes I do have several modern vehicles that have electric fans and they work very well, but not in my classic cruiser.

I'm definitely not going to try and convince you otherwise, you obviously have a set opinion on this.

But the modern vehicle argument is sound.

The heat load on a modern cooling system is greater than a large majority of classic cars, even modified.

Tighter packaging, with anywhere from 1-2 HP per CI, plus AC. It requires more care than slapping any random poorly shrouded electric fan on, but their ability to cool high hp applications is without question.

Edit:
3.6 V6, 1.4hp per CI,

6.4 hemi, 1.24hp per CI

Hellcat, 1.86hp per CI

Every one of them on pump gas, with all the amenities, not a single mechanical fan to be found.

The idea that electrical fans are inferior or unable to keep up with mechanical is ludicrous.