tap and die set?

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fishy68

fishy68

Tyr Fryr's Inc.
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I need a new tap and die set (just SAE) and would like to get a real good set. Have been looking around and ran accross a set in the Northern tool catalog that says their made out of tungsten and coated with titanium. Does anyone here have a set like this or maybe used some like this? If so do you think their worth the extra money? Every once in a while I need to tap stainless and as you all know that crap is hard. Will usually eat a regular tap or die for lunch. I wonder if these tungsten ones would stand up to stainless?
 
I really don't know, but when I hear "Northern Tool," words like "high quality" and "top of the line" do not come to mind.
 
you may be better off getting them from a local tool supply place that machine shops buy from, or maybe Grainger? I know that the more expensive taps have only 3 flutes instead of 4 so they have more meat and don't break as easy (also only 3 cutting edges though).

I have a set made by Dayton that is pretty good.
 
Or McMaster Carr, or don't you have a local fasteners/ etc tools supply/ machine tool supply?
 
67Dart273 said:
I really don't know, but when I hear "Northern Tool," words like "high quality" and "top of the line" do not come to mind.
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They do have their fair share of junk but I have bought some good stuff from them. Just just gotta pick and chose carefully. I was mainly interested in seeing if anyone here has any experience with tungsten taps cause I've never ran accross them until now.
 
we have a place called varco industrial not sure where you can ge tthem from in the U.S. but
I love the spiral point taps that i can get from them. Work awesome for power tapping
spiral-point-gun-tap.jpg


the interrupted tap works like butter in stainless
Interrupted-Thread-Tap.jpg


http://www.newmantools.com/taps/styles.htm

for general ideas about tapping The taps listed above cost a bit more cash I think i use the brand DORMER alot, but i may have the wrong name
 
69B-Cuda said:
you may be better off getting them from a local tool supply place that machine shops buy from, or maybe Grainger? I know that the more expensive taps have only 3 flutes instead of 4 so they have more meat and don't break as easy (also only 3 cutting edges though).

I have a set made by Dayton that is pretty good.
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I only know of one tool supply about 40 miles from me but I figured on checking with them. Forgot about Graingers. I'll check them out.

67Dart273 said:
Or McMaster Carr, or don't you have a local fasteners/ etc tools supply/ machine tool supply?
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Forgot about McMaster Carr too. I'll check them out too. The only tool supply I know of is 40 miles away.

Thanks guys.
 
dodgedifferent2 said:
we have a place called varco industrial not sure where you can ge tthem from in the U.S. but
I love the spiral point taps that i can get from them. Work awesome for power tapping


the interrupted tap works like butter in stainless
Interrupted-Thread-Tap.jpg


http://www.projectsinmetal.com/an-introduction-to-tapping/

for general ideas about tapping The taps listed above cost a bit more cash I think i use the brand DORMER alot, but i may have the wrong name
Click to expand...

Now those are different. I'll have to investigate them. Thanks
 
I bought the northern tool kit about a year ago because I needed a couple of large taps and it have everything from 1/4 to 3/4. While $100 is not cheap, a full set of ultra height quality mcMaster taps will rind you about $500 for the same set. If you are doing a lot of tapping in a machine shop, then go for the high end stuff, but for an occasional use in a garage, then the cheap stuff is ok, I also have a set of HF npt taps, and a set of 1/4 to 1/2 high quality taps if I'm tapping some hard stuff or chrome moly. It's also a good idea to have a set of bottoming taps for engine work.
 
...............They r definately worth the extra $s............however i've never attempted stainless.............kim............
 
I've got Snap-On sets in both metric and SAE and in almost 30 years, I only broke two taps (my fault). I can't vouch for stainless though.
 
As a Tool & Die maker, I can tell you a few things about taps & metallurgy.

When a seller brags about tungsten in a tool alloy, it is usually cheap stuff. Tungsten is used to alloy some tool steels, but you really need chromium, carbon and perhaps come cobalt for a high quality tool.

Taps are a different animal from other cutting tools. There are plenty of different types, because of the wide variety of materials & types of applications. A tap that is very hard will last a long time in a high speed machining center - but is easily broken when tapping by hand.

The term "stainless" covers a huge range of materials. Some of it is soft & gummy, some much tougher. It is not so much "hard" as it is tough & stringy. If you are tapping new holes in 300 series stainless, you need a sharp tap & good lubricant.

Tap Sets usually leave you with taps you may never use. If you don't really own many taps, I would recommend owning an inexpensive "set" for cleaning up rusty holes, removing paint, etc.

For tapping new holes in things you are making, buy quality taps from a US maker like Reiff & Nestor Quality counts when you get to the hole tapping part of things. I have been using R&N taps for a long time in stuff like titanium, tool steels & stainless. They do offer sets if you want to go that way - http://www.rntap.com/tap-technical-information/tap-set.aspx .

Lubricant is as important as tap material. Using the wrong cutting fluid can break a tap quick. For aluminum, use ATF. For steels, use a sulpherized oil. Products like Anchorlube are great in all metals, and can extend your cutting tool life. Anchorlube is available from McMaster-Carr, as well as quality taps.

In reality you need about 10 taps in your kit. 1/4, 5/16, 3/8, 7/16, 1/2 in NC & NF. Double that if you have both taper & plug styles.

Never use your sharp cutting taps to clean out rusty block holes. Use some chrome plated craftsman, or Harbor freight junk for that. Rust & crud is abrasive, and no place to use a good tap.

Hope this helps.

B.
 
Of all the tools NOT to buy from China or Asia, definitely do not get taps and dies from there. Crappy metal in hand tools is bad enough but in cutting tools like this has a much worse impact as it can really hurt your work. Aside from the metal quality, how many threaded products (nuts / bolts) have you ran into from China that had the threads so far out to the limit of the specification range that the nuts would wobble loosely?? I have been running into this issue more oft than not in recent years. I recently bought a altenator fan and pulley set from Mr. Gasket (didn't know they were made in China until it came). The new nut they supplied was so loose on the shaft that it stripped as soon as it was tightend on a bit. I strongly suggest spending the money for a good set of tap & dies.......
 
Thanks everyone for all the great advice and links to products. I did plan on spending what is needed to get good quality taps and Bohica2xo is correct that I really only need a few of the good ones. My old tap set (30 year old Hansen set) is still in good shape except for 2 taps and 1 die I have worn out using them on stainless so I think I'll just replace those pieces and keep them for the average stuff I do and look for a set, or just the few I need that'll take care of tapping the stainless I do, which btw is generally 304. Bohica2xo that's very interesting about possibly using the wrong cutting oil. I just assumed all was needed was a lubricant and have always used the cutting oil that my local NAPA sells. I'll read up more on that subject and make sure to use the right stuff from now on.

Thanks again for all the input.
 
HF sets should only be used to chase, I had very little success in using their carbon taps to even thread an exhaust stud I broke and center drilled out. the threads were cut so loose that I had to enlarge to a metric and stud it to save it.
 
Thanks for the schooling B. I have sold a lot of tap and die sets in the last 20 years but just the high speed steel sets made by Hanson. They are a good general purpose set but I do have problems with customers that use them on stainless or use them as thread chasers. Hand tapping takes patience and some common sense. I like to cut and back out the tap to clear the shavings. When I was a screw machine operator years ago we would thread a thousand pieces with the same tap. The spindle speed and feed rate were correct and there was plenty of coolant to cool and lubricate. Thanks for your expertise. toolman
 
pishta said:
HF sets should only be used to chase, I had very little success in using their carbon taps to even thread an exhaust stud I broke and center drilled out. the threads were cut so loose that I had to enlarge to a metric and stud it to save it.
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I don't doubt that a bit. I would never even waste my money buying a cheap set of Chinese taps. I generally buy the best I can get, even if it means waiting a while until I have the money for them.
 
I have a good Ace Hardware that carries a Hanson/Irwin tap and die sets in stock. I have been using them for over 20 years. I think that they go for $130 to $140. I switched to Hanson taps and dies after putting in 3 heli coils on an oil pan due to cheapo Craftsman tap and die set.
 
krazykuda said:
I have a good Ace Hardware that carries a Hanson/Irwin tap and die sets in stock. I have been using them for over 20 years. I think that they go for $130 to $140. I switched to Hanson taps and dies after putting in 3 heli coils on an oil pan due to cheapo Craftsman tap and die set.
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Hanson's are what I have now and I bet their 40 yrs. old and some are still real good. The only ones that aren't good are the ones I've used trying to tap stainless.
 
Talk to a counterman at MSC (www.MSCDirect.com)-they sell to a lot of machine shops and can recommend taps/dies designed for stainless. They can be a bit pricey, but with the correct lubricant will last significantly longer than the general purpose tap
 
Big Jim said:
Talk to a counterman at MSC (www.MSCDirect.com)-they sell to a lot of machine shops and can recommend taps/dies designed for stainless. They can be a bit pricey, but with the correct lubricant will last significantly longer than the general purpose tap
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Thanks Jim. I'll keep them in mind when I get around to finally doing something.
 
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