DusterKrazy
Well-Known Member
Assembling a new /6. Has anyone here recently had the block decked?? Want to remove about a .100. I guess it depends on the area but what is a fair price?
Decking block cost??
- Thread starter DusterKrazy
- Start date
-
6pakattack
Well-Known Member
Wish I could help ya, I don't even remember what it cost to take that off my head !
805moparkid
Slant and AFX Guy
no more than 200, but i think i paid 130 for having my head done, i recall 10 bucks per .010.
what will be your piston to deck height after the deck?
what will be your piston to deck height after the deck?
The shop I use does inline 6s for 125 and V8s for 150.
DusterKrazy
Well-Known Member
Thanks guys.
805, I haven't measured it out yet. I'm thinking about going with the Molnar rods so I may not go quite that much but am thinking around .100. I remember that my head was $100 to do but still haven't installed the valves yet. I'm pricing this out before it goes down.
The local places said they really wouldn't have any interest in doing it so I will have to take the block out of town.
I heard I may or not have a hard time lining up the JP timing set as well. Again, thanks for the input. I didn't know what was reasonable.
805, I haven't measured it out yet. I'm thinking about going with the Molnar rods so I may not go quite that much but am thinking around .100. I remember that my head was $100 to do but still haven't installed the valves yet. I'm pricing this out before it goes down.
The local places said they really wouldn't have any interest in doing it so I will have to take the block out of town.
I heard I may or not have a hard time lining up the JP timing set as well. Again, thanks for the input. I didn't know what was reasonable.
805moparkid
Slant and AFX Guy
if your running 7.005 rods you need to wait until you have it bored and a cylinder installed so you get the specs for compression. as i recall you end up around .040 in the hole on a stock block which is still about 9:1 with weisco's.
as far as the JP set its the crank, not the set. the cranks vary enough to cause issues so again before assembly verify its right
DusterKrazy
Well-Known Member
Thanks 805.
I'll have to save up and see it where it goes. The last combo was milder and won a lot of brackets. I have that "go faster" disease though!!
My head is cut around .115.
Any word on quality with the Molnar or K-1's? I heard it's the same thing??
I'll have to save up and see it where it goes. The last combo was milder and won a lot of brackets. I have that "go faster" disease though!!
My head is cut around .115.
Any word on quality with the Molnar or K-1's? I heard it's the same thing??
805moparkid
Slant and AFX Guy
don't cut anything if you are already at 45/44cc chambers. I bet your already in the 11:1 area and now you need to be certain of piston to valve clearance. I would be using the felpro .037 thick compressed gasket to help your situation...
K-1's were designed by molnar but something went south between the two and now molnar split and is doing his own stuff.
robertob
Well-Known Member
Not even close - a bone stock, uncut block with wisecos and 7.005 rods is within .005 of 0 deck. But your advice is correct. DO NOT CUT that block if you are running aftermarket rods and pistons.
You are going to have a serious compression problem - what is your head CC now?
805moparkid
Slant and AFX Guy
well again your number is SPEC, these blocks are off as much as .050 off blue print (+/-). ive seen stock pistons anywhere from .125 to .250 in the hole lol...
Since you are going from a virtually "blank sheet of paper" with this build, I would hope that you have done enough research to learn the output-limitations of a normally-aspirated slant six, and are certain that you're never going to use any form of forced induction on it in reference to decking the block to the extent that you are planning on here.
Cutting that much off a block's deck will make it difficult at a later date to achieve a low-enough compression ratio to make turbocharging or supercharging that engine simply a bolt-on operation, should you ever want to go that route.
If you can get the compression ratio you need without cutting the block, it will be a lot easier to change the un-swept volume at a later date if you should decide to change the induction system over to a turbo or supercharged system.
It's a lot easier to change the head than it is the block, in that instance.
Just sayin'...:coffee2:
805moparkid
Slant and AFX Guy
bill he has built a couple slants... if he wanted boost he would have said so... besides having a higher base compression just means you have less lag, not less boost so long as everything will hold and fuel is up to snuff
But, if his base compression is 11-to-one, he's not going to be able to get it down to (the necessary) 9-to-one with the milled block... which is where he will need it to be if he should ultimately run the hairdryer setup. He may well never do that, but if he does, after possiblyfinding himself unhappy with the results of a normally-aspirated engine, he may have occasion to regret milling that block. That's all I was saying.
I was ignorant of the fact that this was not his first rodeo, so he may already be aware of the severe limitations of the breathing that exists with a normally-aspirated induction system, and be happy with that. Dunno; can't know what he will be thinking when it all comes together... but, if his methodology, now, precludes the possibility of bolting on some forced induction down the road, there may be a better way to so it...
Milling just the head, now (a LOT), and running a thin, shim-steel head gasket may get him sufficient compression (for this motor) without touching the block, I don't know, but it would be worth investigating, I would think, in view of the ultimate consequences.
Just my 2-cents...:blob:
74360duster
JEREMY
My machinist charged me $133 to bore. Torque plate hone. And install cam bearings.
Another $40 per side to deck a block through him.
Another $40 per side to deck a block through him.
805moparkid
Slant and AFX Guy
who says you have to have 9:1 to run boost?
Nobody. But that figure seems to be the limit for turbocharged engines, generally, in regards to what is feasible for engines utilizing 20-25 pounds of boost. The idea that you could get away with running 10.5:1 compression would suggest C-16 fuel (or, E-85, or outright alcohol) and reduced timing, with less boost to stay away from detonation.
It's all a trade-off, of course, and 9:1 is not a magic number, but seems to be the most practical for street-driven cars because they can usually get by with pump gas when used with chemical intercooling and an actual air-to-air intercooler up front.
If you want to run more than 9:1, you are looking at reduced boost, timing, and higher octane requirements as a nod to reducing detonation possibilities.
Overall, there's reason most systems utilize 9:1 as a limit on compression... a practical consideration...
That's the way I see it, anyway.:headbang:
Geez Bill, can you leave one thread to a natural aspiration discussion? Not everybody wants to drink the turbo kool aid. Some people simply want to build what they want and not what you want.
I said, "which is where he will need it to be if he should ultimately run the hairdryer setup. He may well never do that, but if he does, after possibly finding himself unhappy with the results of a normally-aspirated engine, he may have occasion to regret milling that block." That's all I was saying.
I also said, "If you can get the compression ratio you need without cutting the block, it will be a lot easier to change the un-swept volume at a later date if you should decide to change the induction system over to a turbo or supercharged system.
It's a lot easier to change the head than it is the block, in that instance."
Nowhere did I suggest that he should try forced induction. I don't see the harm in advising him a way to save money (and, time) in case he should decide to go that way at a later date.
That is ALL I did.
Please explain to me what is wrong with what I said. If you can find anywhere where I tried to convince him to change his normally-aspirated decision for this engine over to a different configuration.
I did not. All I did was to suggest what was perhaps a better plan of attack, that might could save him some grief, down the road, should he change his mind, later on.
If that's a bad thing, then I guess I'm guilty.
I know what you said. I can read. But again, this isn't a turbo build.
Okay; Sorry my message was somehow offensive. I'll try to not do that again.
Who knows; he might not have been able to get the unswept volume small enough without milling the block, anyway, so it may well be moot.
I would think that if he's going to bother to buy custom/forged pistons, the manufacturer could probably give him any compression-ratio he needed, with a dome. That would negate the necessity of milling anything, wouldn't it?
Not offended at all. You seem to turn every thread to turbo somehow. I just find it amusing.
/6 Matt
30 Degrees Crooked
Well, it is surely not my intention to annoy ANYONE...
I guess I have this over-bearing tendency to bring everyone around to the realization that the smart money is on turbocharging when it comes to a SLANT SIX and any dollars spent on building a normally-aspirated engine are not going to pay much in the way of dividends at the dyno, compared with what you get with a forced induction motor, because of the incredibly-poor breathing cylinder head we are stuck with (even a "ported" one with big valves.)
I should refrain from voicing my opinion (because, all I seem to do is piss people off) and let them go their own way... but, it's hard.
Not everybody wants an 11-second slant six; lots of folks just want to go "kinda fast", but the original-poster in this thread did say (and this is a direct quote from his third note,) "I have that "go faster" disease though!!" Hmmmm...
I think that pronouncement by him. was what prompted me to say "after possibly finding himself unhappy with the results of a normally-aspirated engine, he may have occasion to regret milling that block."
If he really DOES have that "go faster disease," a turbo is probably the best way to scratch that itch on a slant six. You can spend a LOT of money on a normally-aspirated 225 in a 3,200-pound car and still have a car that runs in the fourteens. A 14-second car can be a lot of fun, but a 12-second car is even more fun...:cheers: Think of the V-8's you can trounce...
Just my 2-cents...
Bill, you love what you're doin. Simple as that. We love raggin you. lol
I guess you're right, but what I REALLY love is an efficient engine, and the only way to have one, it seems, is to put some help on it (if it's a slant six) in the form of a hairdryer, or some other "breathing enhancement." That 170 head just doesn't seem to get the job done.
Then again, a 14-second car really can be a lot of fun... You can run toe-to-toe with a stock 340, and even beat a few of 'em at 14-flat (like 805moparkid's.)
It's all good!!! :cheers:
-
