Electric fan install help.
Sure. Modern cars are designed to operate with electric fans. Our older cars are not.
So, that means when you modify to an electric fan, you are basically going into "no man's land" from an engineering standpoint. This is why fixed and clutch fans work on our cars, because they were designed to work on our cars.
Re-engineering something is not as easy as simply throwing a part on. It's a pretty well known fact that the "average" hot street/strip car needs around 4000 CFM of air flow.
People who just "slap on" a Taurus or whatever fan have no idea from a design and engineering standpoint what the hell they are doing.
If I WAS going to switch to an electric fan, I would SPEND THE MONEY to get a damn good one, instead of trying to be a stupid *** and always find the cheapest way out, like most dolts do.
I like the Flexalite Black Majic series fans. They are not cheap but they will MOVE SOME AIR.
I never will understand why people spend 5K plus dollars on an engine and then get a junkyard electric fan for it.
Total dumbasses.
If I have offended anyone, then good. That was my point.
Except, like most people that just rattle off a bunch of BS and resort to name calling, you have no idea what you're talking about. And I'm not offended at all Rob, because you're just plain wrong.
The Contour fans flow over 3500 cfm on the LOW setting. On the high setting they flow over 5k, I've seen some of them spec'd at close to 6k CFM on high. Which is moot, because I've also never had the fans go into the "high" setting, even when its 110* out and I'm stuck in traffic. The original Ford parts were made by Bosch and have excellent reviews regarding their reliability, with most of the OE parts going well over a hundred thousand miles without any issues at all. So that "junkyard" fan is more reliable than the overpriced aftermarket crap that doesn't flow as many CFM. If you do a quick search, you'll see that the Contour fan swap comes up on a number of different internet boards, it's being used by quite a few folks in various different musclecar, hot rod, and 4WD applications as an alternative to more expensive and less capable aftermarket electric fans. On top of that, Ford spent a lot money engineering the Contour fan set up. Probably a lot more time that Spal or some of those other aftermarket fan makers spend on theirs. Ford actually wants it's fans to outlast the warranty period, which is a lot longer on their cars than anything any of the aftermarket folks offer.
As far as being in "no man's land" on a swap, that's also BS. There are quite a few people on this site, myself included, that have done the contour swap. Like goldduster318, I did the swap with a 26" 3 core Champion radiator and use a Dakota Digital controller, although I did buy a Dorman reproduction fan set up. I haven't had any cooling issues whatsoever, and I'm running a 400+ hp 340 that's .060" over. Goldduster318 runs a 470hp MRL 340. The swap is well documented in my build thread (and others), and has been addressed numerous times here. If you'd bothered to take a look at the PDF goldduster318 posted, you'd see he made instructions for the whole thing.
As far as "engineering" the system, all that matters is the CFM rating of the fans. The radiator doesn't know how those CFM's are being supplied, neither does the engine. The only thing that matters to the engine is that there's enough CFM being supplied to keep the engine in it's operational range. How that is accomplished is irrelevant to the engine. Not only that, I'd bet that Ford spend quite a bit of money engineering the Contour fans to work in a car that has less frontal area, less open space with airflow to the radiator, and much less engine compartment space and air flow to cool the engine. The dual fan set up is for a V6 that made 200 hp, but it has a
single core, 1" deep radiator.
My biggest beef with electrics is this; When the fan quits 100 miles from Nowheresville, I'll be calling Dr.Hook. If I lose a fan belt, well there's always a spare belt,in the trunk.
The mechanical fan is a non-normal wear item, and a belt runs me 10 or 12 bucks, and can be flipped on without tools if need be,in 5 minutes. Maybe,just maybe, I can even run it at 40mph with ram air and no belt.Just maybe.
The fans and support works? IDK. But sure as heck, when they make trouble, it will be at a bad time.And I'm not gonna be designating space in my trunk for a complete second spare system every time I leave home for a four-hour trip.
That's my biggest beef.Not the only one.
Hey I could put a 4banger under my hood. That would be a huge improvement.....in fuel mileage. "Modern cars run them".
Most "Modern cars", affordable to the masses, are overweight,under-powered,bandaided-to-no-end,marvels of government mandated dictates. It doesn't automatically make them,somehow, better. And 120 year old, mechanical fan designs are definitely not somehow automatically inferior.
Here's my second beef;
Yes;Mechanical fans may cost a bit of torque at idle, but the engine has a preponderance of torque there anyway, and the number would be small.At WOT, again they are using up power that could otherwise be used to power the wheels.At cruising speed they are practically going along for a free ride with the ram air.
So for a race car it makes sense. And maybe for a stationary engine too.
When the electrical fans come on, they draw a huge load on the electrical system, so much so that at idle, most fuel injected engines will automatically increase the idle speed, so the alternator can keep up. If you track your modern car the sustained WOT will create a lot of heat that the cooling system will need to get rid of, same as the racecar. A mechanical fan will get the job done in a a few seconds. The electrical fans will run for a long time.Several minutes.At cruise, the electrics will mostly be off.
The thing is, when the engine powers up the alt to do this job, you find out that the alternator is horribly inefficient, requiring as much as 5 or 6 or even 9 times more times the energy to do it's job, than if the fan was directly driven. So it's busy wearing out the charging system, and emptying out your fuel tank, to-boot;This is my second beef.
Here's the third beef; A well designed cooling system with a mechanical fan, will run a rock-solid cooling temperature. This means you can run the temp up to 200,210, or even more. If you tune your engine to reliably run this temp,you can take advantage of that higher-running rock-solid temp.You can tune for fuel mileage. Or you can exploit the horsepower envelope.
With an electrical system the engine running temp, will be varying some 30 degrees from around 190 to 220, or even 230. Don't even think about trying to run hotter than normal, cuz sooner or later the fans will be running full time and maxed out.One little incident and it will be goodbye engine.That's my third beef.
Electric fans on modern Cars are on there cuz manufacturers have found a way to meet the government mandates with them. It allows their powerplants to meet emmissions requirements with ever decreasing engine sizes that they need, to make the mpg numbers that they either think the masses want, or are mandated to achieve.That's just a beef;period. Of the people for the people...HaH.
Again, you've posted a lot of unsubstantiated claims here, most of which have NOT been my experience running the Contour fans on my car.
The Dakota Digital controller allows me to set my temperature range in single degree increments if I want (although that's kind of silly). My fans come on at 195* and turn off at 190* for the "low" setting. My "high" speed is programmed to come on at 205* and shut down at 200*. The "high" speed on my fans has never been used. So, not sure what you're talking about on this 30* temp range, but it doesn't happen with the Dakota digital controller. The only time my fans have run for more than a minute or two I was stuck in traffic in 110* weather, and the low speed was still cycling on and off, and the fans stopped running as soon as I was above 10mph or so. Again, that's on a 400+ hp 340 that's .060" over with 110* outside air temps. Most of you aren't even driving when its that hot.
I run a 100 amp Tuff Stuff stock style alternator. I've never had any issues with the electrical system on my car. I do run most of my electrics through a relay solenoid, which is how I run power to the fan relays. But the rest of my electrics are stock, including the amp gauge in my dash (which will be bypassed for a voltmeter eventually). It's pretty common now for folks to ditch the 60 amp stock alternators for higher rated units, even Denso's, which are putting out a lot more than my 100 amp stock style alternator. Ideally some changes should be made (like the amp meter bypass), but again, that's something most people are doing anyway. Obviously if you're considering an electric fan set up you're probably not too worried about being 100% stock.
As far as reliability, I already mentioned that the OE ford parts have been demonstrated to work problem free for well over a hundred thousand miles. The OE bosch parts are dead reliable, and there are a crap load more Ford Contours and Mercury whatevers on the road than all of our years/models of musclecars combined. As far as parts go, the fan relays are available at most local parts stores. The fans themselves are usually available within 24 hours, same with the controller. Carrying an extra set of relays would be similar to carrying an extra fan belt, there's a lot that can go wrong with a mechanical fan/fan clutch set up that you can't fix with a fan belt. And if things really go south with that fan clutch you aren't just buying a new fan, you're buying a new radiator. If my fan motors burn out I just buy another one.
I don't think that the electric fan conversion is for everyone. There are advantages and disadvantages to it, and wiring it up isn't for everyone (I hate wiring!!!). There is something to be said for the simplicity of a mechanical fan with a fan clutch, but there are drawbacks too, especially the quality of the fan clutches that are out there now. Including a bunch that aren't rated to 6k rpm! But on a properly set up electric system you won't see many of the issues that you "have a beef" with.