Electric fan install help.
Sure. Modern cars are designed to operate with electric fans. Our older cars are not.
So, that means when you modify to an electric fan, you are basically going into "no man's land" from an engineering standpoint. This is why fixed and clutch fans work on our cars, because they were designed to work on our cars.
Re-engineering something is not as easy as simply throwing a part on. It's a pretty well known fact that the "average" hot street/strip car needs around 4000 CFM of air flow.
People who just "slap on" a Taurus or whatever fan have no idea from a design and engineering standpoint what the hell they are doing.
If I WAS going to switch to an electric fan, I would SPEND THE MONEY to get a damn good one, instead of trying to be a stupid *** and always find the cheapest way out, like most dolts do.
I like the Flexalite Black Majic series fans. They are not cheap but they will MOVE SOME AIR.
I never will understand why people spend 5K plus dollars on an engine and then get a junkyard electric fan for it.
Total dumbasses.
If I have offended anyone, then good. That was my point.
Why does the radiator care about what type of fan it is? The thing needs airflow to cool, whether it comes from a fan, free flow through the grill opening, or the pressure drop between one side and the other.
Where's the info on that it needs 4,000 cfm? The amount of airflow needed depends on the combination of several factors like engine efficiency, radiator size, frontal opening, engine size, fin density etc. What works for someone with a 318 with a mild cam is a lot different than a 440. So you may be able to get by with less, or need more.
Most aftermarket parts never go through a DVP&R like the Contour fans do. I have no reason not to trust a factory OEM part that's also not known for failing.
Here's my second beef;
Yes;Mechanical fans may cost a bit of torque at idle, but the engine has a preponderance of torque there anyway, and the number would be small.At WOT, again they are using up power that could otherwise be used to power the wheels.At cruising speed they are practically going along for a free ride with the ram air.
So for a race car it makes sense. And maybe for a stationary engine too.
When the electrical fans come on, they draw a huge load on the electrical system, so much so that at idle, most fuel injected engines will automatically increase the idle speed, so the alternator can keep up. If you track your modern car the sustained WOT will create a lot of heat that the cooling system will need to get rid of, same as the racecar. A mechanical fan will get the job done in a a few seconds. The electrical fans will run for a long time.Several minutes.At cruise, the electrics will mostly be off.
The thing is, when the engine powers up the alt to do this job, you find out that the alternator is horribly inefficient, requiring as much as 5 or 6 or even 9 times more times the energy to do it's job, than if the fan was directly driven. So it's busy wearing out the charging system, and emptying out your fuel tank, to-boot;This is my second beef.
Here's the third beef; A well designed cooling system with a mechanical fan, will run a rock-solid cooling temperature. This means you can run the temp up to 200,210, or even more. If you tune your engine to reliably run this temp,you can take advantage of that higher-running rock-solid temp.You can tune for fuel mileage. Or you can exploit the horsepower envelope.
With an electrical system the engine running temp, will be varying some 30 degrees from around 190 to 220, or even 230. Don't even think about trying to run hotter than normal, cuz sooner or later the fans will be running full time and maxed out.One little incident and it will be goodbye engine.That's my third beef.
Electric fans on modern Cars are on there cuz manufacturers have found a way to meet the government mandates with them. It allows their powerplants to meet emmissions requirements with ever decreasing engine sizes that they need, to make the mpg numbers that they either think the masses want, or are mandated to achieve.That's just a beef;period. Of the people for the people...HaH.
Totally wrong. We can directly measure the electrical load from the fans. So, if we have 40A which is maybe even high for a contour fan and use Ohms Law ( Power=current x voltage ) so Power= 40A x 14V = 560W. Let's say your alternator is 60% efficient which would be relatively close. So 560W/0.60 = 933.3W. 746W=1hp. So...the fan is loading the engine for 1.25hp. And it's probably running at idle where you have a lot of extra power you don't need. But, adding that load will drag the idle down. Instead, when you have a mechanical fan, the load is always there.
The electric fans are more efficient. Pop the hood on a new 3.6L Ram that can tow 7k lbs, you'll find electric fans.
I have had pretty much the identical experience to 72blunblu. Never use high speed. Fans come on and turn off as in the PDF. Rock solid temp. Basically never on when I'm moving.
With my last engine which was less souped up, and a stock 72 A/C radiator, and a stock mechanical fan, my water temp would vary between 190 and 220, and would creep always in traffic.
You haven't a clue. First, as nearly always, my "name calling" was tongue in cheek.
Beyond that, lemmie clue you in. Those Ford fans ain't ****. Never have been. Never will be. Those flow figures are a bunch of made up hooha. I don;t care if they come straight from Ford. It;s bullshit.
I KNOW that, because I have compared a Black Majic fan TO a Taurus fan "supposedly" with the same ratings you say. The Black Majic fan sounded and felt like a damn hurricane in comparison. It moved so much more air than the Ford fan, it was ridiculous. We had the Ford fan setup on a 383 powered rat rod making a tick under 400 HP.
It constantly got too hot at idle and low speed crusing. It was not a junkyard unit, but BRAND NEW straight from Ford from the local dealership in Milledgeville, Georgia. Though it was a two speed fan, we wired it in on high. Still was not enough.
Our guess was that Ford must have a different way of measuring CFM.....perhaps similar to the differences between how Holley and Carter measure CFM and come up with very different ratings on supposedly similar size carburetors, I don't know.
What I do know is, that damn Black Majic fan moves the hell out of some air. We compared it not only to the fan it replaced, but also to three other Fords that we had in the shop at the same time, because like you, we also "had heard" that the Ford fans were good. They are crap if you have something with any power at all.
I would not have commented if I didn't know first hand. But I do. Seen it with my own good one eye.
Taurus fans and Contour fans are entirely different...and for a wholly different application. The Taurus fans are also of an older design and are a single fan with a smaller shroud size. The Taurus radiator is bigger, there's more frontal area that's open on a taurus, and the engine bay is bigger. The Contour V6 is honestly a crazy packed in engine bay. And of course, the A/C has to cool in death valley AND keep the car cool...and work for the design life of the car which was at least 150k miles. that's the test.
Oh and one more thing. Show me where I am just "plain wrong" that these older cars were designed with a fixed or clutch style fan.
That's where you are just "plain wrong".
Different things work for different people. Evidently your setup works good. You probably have a lot of radiator for those inferior fans. Glad it works for you.
I still stand by what I said and I am correct. Our older cars were never designed with electric fans in mind.
"Designed with a fixed or clutch style fan" for a stock application when nobody had electric fans, means basically ZERO when you have newer technology AND a modified car. The equation changed.
I'm not sure where you're going with the radiator thing, because basically every electric fan car doesn't run the fans while you're cruising along on the roads. I think if you were choosing a radiator, you'd spend the almost no extra money to get the slightly larger one, you know, one that could keep the car cool while it was moving without a fan. Basically the best design practice you could use without computer modeling. You're always covered there. The car even warms up faster since I'm not pulling extra air across the radiator when I don't need to be. So you could use a small radiator, loose power all the time with your mechanical fan and have heat creep if you want. Been there, done that.
The fact that we're not even using the fans to what their capable of in no way makes them inferior. I sat in traffic at the Woodward dream cruise where I never exceeded 5 mph in 87 degree heat this year for two hours and the high speed never turned on. So the engine never got above 205. The fans were even cycling on and off. The car didn't care at all. I was in worse shape than the engine was. And I have a 78A 12SI delco alternator. Still holding above 13V the whole time
Everyone who I've spoken with that runs this setup is totally satisfied with it. Even the guy running one on a 22".
I don't think the factory intended that I use beehive springs or a hydraulic roller cam in my 340 either, but those work great too.