I hear yea Joe, but I seen way to many members here deal with the block huggers..and I was not going to deal with all the BS and hug some high dollar headers and bend them just to watch them give me trouble for a year or two just to go back to manifolds, Keith has been running his for 7 years now and he bought his used, I do understand, but I really wanted a good tuned header for my small block and removing the sheet of metal was a no brainer for me.