Needswork
Well-Known Member
Thanks Ironmike, that's helpful. I've already got some expensive 1.5 rockers, so I was planning to go with those. Perhaps it will be OK on my block or tubing is in my future as YR suggests.
Tubing the gallery with a twist
- Thread starter Ironmike
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RAMM
Well-Known Member
Just a warning---Those oil lite bushings will NOT hold up as a lifter bushing--I've done it the material is all wrong. J.Rob
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
Some of your pricing is the most expensive I've seen advertised on this board, but that's your business.
He shoukd use a different lifter set or bush the one lifter bore and move on if that's the only issue, I don't see tubing being necessary or benificial at this level. Those lifters look like swiss cheese, I bet they piss oil like crazy, the body design is a double edge sword...not my favorite.
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
Very true and watch for lifter body design, that can be the difference by itself.
RAMM
Well-Known Member
Keep in mind I'm not quoting in USD either. My prices may seem high but year end I barely make enough that I am considering employment in another field. This trade is best kept as a hobby. J.Rob
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Exactly. It's damn hard to make money doing this **** and very easy to lose money doing it.
What gets posted on this site is about 1% of what goes wrong doing this for a living. Most of the junk doesn't fit, has to be modified and the manufacture says you are the only one who has ever had that issue.
It just goes on and on and on. When I bought my first car in 1980 I was stunned by the junk that didn't fit. Here we are 37 years later and it's still the same.
It's hard to explain why a CNC port is garbage even though the manufacturer says it's perfect, don't touch it. They lie. It's hard to explain why you have to dent headers, and the manufacturer blames the car maker. More lies. Can't tell you how many cars I have strung and an 1/8 inch is the most I have seen a car be off that wasn't smashed in a crash. Tires that don't roll out the same. Wheels that ain't straight. Springs that are nowhere near the rate they should be (both engine and chassis springs). It's rediculous.
Treblig
Well-Known Member
xture????
Why don't you mention how much your Mazak AJV CNC mill costs and how much to design and manufacture the fixture. This way people won't wonder why things cost so much?????
Treblig
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
xture????
Why don't you mention how much your Mazak AJV CNC mill costs and how much to design and manufacture the fixture. This way people won't wonder why things cost so much?????
Treblig
HaHaHa. And don't forget to post up what the tooling costs. The machine is cheap. The tooling is a killer.
Ironmike
Well-Known Member
Talked to Dennis Wyendorf today about his kit. Very knowledgeable guy trying to help people out.
Said the reamer is sized to factory specs. Can make them any size, but with my lifters the standard one will do. Asked about the bushing life and he said sold over 200 of these and never had anyone mention a short life or failure.
Of course I Google him and found he's highly respected in the Ford scene and pretty well liked from what I can see.
Pretty sure I'm pulling the trigger on this deal. If it's done properly you can do 3 blocks before you need a re-sharpen, so maybe I could sell it when I'm done. Lots of lube and never getting the tools too hot is the way to go, according to him.
We shall see....
Said the reamer is sized to factory specs. Can make them any size, but with my lifters the standard one will do. Asked about the bushing life and he said sold over 200 of these and never had anyone mention a short life or failure.
Of course I Google him and found he's highly respected in the Ford scene and pretty well liked from what I can see.
Pretty sure I'm pulling the trigger on this deal. If it's done properly you can do 3 blocks before you need a re-sharpen, so maybe I could sell it when I'm done. Lots of lube and never getting the tools too hot is the way to go, according to him.
We shall see....
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Cool. Keep us posted. I'm big on limiting oil at the lifter as much as I can, any way I can. This is just another option.
Ironmike
Well-Known Member
Of course I will. Although.........found out my spring pressure MIGHT be less than thought. Mikes MRL ProSport's are good to 650lbs. .750 roller, but skirted more than the .815 rollers I have now.
Have to check with Pac before I do anything yet. If i find out open pressure is 550-575 or so, i COULD be swayed to the .750 roller. Scary. I'm so all over the map right now. It's still friggin January and I'm in SUCH a hurry! Wifey says I need a Valium.
To the guys that complained when I did work, i said to them, "When you learn how it is ACTUALLY done and you LEARN how it gets done by getting dirty, let me know what you charge."
It is almost amazing how many of those customers I then charged more to do the work they screwed up or realized it was beyond there ability.
I'm happy in my garage all by myself these days.
It is almost amazing how many of those customers I then charged more to do the work they screwed up or realized it was beyond there ability.
I'm happy in my garage all by myself these days.
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yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Of course I will. Although.........found out my spring pressure MIGHT be less than thought. Mikes MRL ProSport's are good to 650lbs. .750 roller, but skirted more than the .815 rollers I have now.
Have to check with Pac before I do anything yet. If i find out open pressure is 550-575 or so, i COULD be swayed to the .750 roller. Scary. I'm so all over the map right now. It's still friggin January and I'm in SUCH a hurry! Wifey says I need a Valium.
I will tell you and this free so take it for what your paying for it but spring pressure has zero to do with wheel diameter.
This is from Wayne Jesel. I was eating lifters like milk duds.. In fact, I almost quit racing over just lifter failure because Crane kept telling me I had spring pressure issues. So I went down. It started eating lifters at a lower RPM. So I went up, until I was at 325 on the seat and about 850 over the nose. This was in 1993 and was unheard of spring pressure. But the lifter would live to 8200 rather than eat itself at 7800. Problem was, the engine made peak power at 8100 and shifted at 8500 and crossed at 9000. Since I had spent several years making the other **** live at that engine speed, and the car was set up for it I was going to quit. Then I decided to call Jesel and buy his 115.00 each lifter. Instead, he told me Crane was full of **** and set me up.
The truth is that three things affect wheel diameter. One is RPM. Two is the design of the lobe and I had a pretty agressive lobe for that RPM (it was a Brookshire lobe and Harold and I had some very long, heat discussions, which I wish I'd have kept the notes) and three is the diameter of the base circle. Chrysler used a bigger base circle than Chevy did and that's one reason why they can get away with a smaller wheel, plus the diameter of the lifter limits wheel diameter. So, when you calculate how far the wheel travels to get around the lobe, the bigger the base circle, the faster the wheel has to travel. The lifter wheel will actually go into a vibration at a certain speed. The only way to fix it is a smaller base circle, a bigger wheel or less RPM.
I'm never a fan of a .750 wheel in any lifter you can fit a bigger wheel. There is a reason you can get lifters over an inch in diameter today. One of the reasons is bigger diameter, bigger wheel. I hate .750 wheel lifters.
After talking with Wayne Jesel, I faxed Crane a copy of my notes from the phone call. I should have sued them for all the broken parts and their dereliction in telling me the truth, but I sent them the junk lifters, freight COD and they sent me a set of Pro Series lifters for free. So I ate up probably 4-4K worth of ****, learning a hard lesson.
And while you may think my RPM is lower, my lift is lower etc, a bigger wheel is always better.
"A bigger wheel is better."
Fuckin A!
Fuckin A!
moper
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Assuming you're not trying to fix an oiling issue. Mike's way past doing it "right" (right being subjective to the guy supplying the ideas).
Mike - please read post 601769 on the link below regarding your self-bushing idea. You may repair the oil leak. You won't fix anything else. You need the right (expensive & complicated) machining equipment and tooling to do it right.
As to RAMM's comments - this is exactly why I build as a side business. You can't expect to pay your mortgage when the clientele is basing whether you're being fair or not on internet commentaries and pricing from when the subject vehicles were new rather than if their engine does what they want and expect it to.
As to the benefits of correcting angles - I will simply point to MOPARTS - or more precisely those builders that responded on this one. It's from 2010 but I can't think that any blocks fixed themselves in that time. And BTW - I've been bushing since way before this because it's the "right thing to do":
Seen many OEM 440 blocks with lifter bore issues? | Unlawfl's Race & Engine Tech | Moparts Forums
famous bob
mopar misfit
you guys are eveidently pretty well versed in these problems, and know eons more about it than I do. some pics of these procedures in progress and the finished product would be fantastic. so, how would you explain a 100,000 plus mile 440 block that is totally stock in these areas, still having a tight lifter bore w/ new lifters installed 50 yrs later ? all opinions appreciated ------bob
Hey Moper, I remember that thread!
Good show bringing that up.
Good thread.
Good show bringing that up.
Good thread.
moper
Well-Known Member
The pictures of the last one I had bushings in went away with the ex wife's computer years ago.
So my response to your question is what are the clearances on those lifter bores?
famous bob
mopar misfit
-------------------.001----------------????????????? why ?
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
So I read that link that was posted. I have not done that many chryslers but I have done more than my fair share and the chryslers have been the best of all them. So I have no idea what they were talking about.
I personally have never seen a block with an oversize lifter from the factory.i know they are out there but I've never seen one.
I'm going to talk to a local Stocker friend and see what he says.
I bushed my T/A block and several X blocks. They weren't off. Most of the time now I just tube them.
I personally have never seen a block with an oversize lifter from the factory.i know they are out there but I've never seen one.
I'm going to talk to a local Stocker friend and see what he says.
I bushed my T/A block and several X blocks. They weren't off. Most of the time now I just tube them.
Ironmike
Well-Known Member
Well I just couldn't do it after talking to my machinist this morn. When I told him about the DIY thing, or maybe going to a .750 roller(which I knew was better...see post 1). He had a fit. "Do you have any idea how much time I put into that block?"..... "you wanted it PERFECT, now you wanna hack on it"....
So he said get it the hell out there and he'll correctly bush the bores for the cost of the bushings. He'd do it after hours, on his free time. It'll be done probably Friday morning. That is the kind of machinist I have and the relationship we have developed over a few years.
The only thing he had to find was a"print"... I guess a schematic of all the numbers and such. I think, because he doesn't have the BHJ machine. A lot tougher for him to get them spot on, but he will.
When I got there 5 brand new raw aluminum big blocks just showed up for 1 race team. This guy's busy but still takes care of the little guy. Lucky, huh?
So he said get it the hell out there and he'll correctly bush the bores for the cost of the bushings. He'd do it after hours, on his free time. It'll be done probably Friday morning. That is the kind of machinist I have and the relationship we have developed over a few years.
The only thing he had to find was a"print"... I guess a schematic of all the numbers and such. I think, because he doesn't have the BHJ machine. A lot tougher for him to get them spot on, but he will.
When I got there 5 brand new raw aluminum big blocks just showed up for 1 race team. This guy's busy but still takes care of the little guy. Lucky, huh?
RAMM
Well-Known Member
Where are you getting the bushings and what's the cost? J.Rob
moper
Well-Known Member
Mike - AWESOME.
However, I'd pay him his time, or at least give him something for it. Fair is fair. It's a high level modification in terms of time and equipment required.
However, I'd pay him his time, or at least give him something for it. Fair is fair. It's a high level modification in terms of time and equipment required.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Glad you are getting it done.
Keep us posted.
Keep us posted.
j par
Well-hung Member
You guys know I don't know much, (if anything?!) But when ken (oregon cam) re-ground my cam he sold me barrel lifters? What's that?
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