Am I a Dumbass or what

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MileHighDart said:
I didn't know about tap extractors, there is a hardware store near by that carries lots of weird stuff, I'll try them first.
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Well McGuckin hardware does carry them, but of course they don't have a 5/16". Looks like I can buy one on Amazon, but then i'll be waiting a week for it to show up.
 
Anybody can buy from McMasterCarr, just set up a account and have a credit card. I buy from there all the time, I'm also local and pick it up but they also deliver same day if I want.
 
How dumb of you. I never did that.......

Twice.

I got pretty lucky and was able to cut a slot with a dremel cutting wheel and back them out with a screwdriver.
 
retroron said:
I don't think that is exactly correct. Weld does not "stick" . The metal or pieces being joined together coalesce to form a joint, so if you use a high tensile strength bare wire rod there is no reason the pieces couldn't be joined.
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True, he needs a gtaw welder and the right rod and shouldn't have any problems. I've made mini taps with a nut welded on top and have re-tapped some pretty knarly stainless threads before, no problem breaking the tap or weld.
 
MileHighDart said:
So my 5.9 build is almost finished.

I was 5 minutes away from mounting the intake manifold. Then I decided to run a tap through all the holes to clean them out a bit. Well I'm on the last hole, drivers side, rear most hole. And I snapped the tap off in the hole.

QUOTE]

If this engine is on an engine stand then take the 5 mins and pull the head, load it into your car and drive to your nearest machine shop. This is your fastest and easiest and best solution. I do this VERY often but even MORE often the customer has made it FAR FAR WORSE by breaking and mangling more stuff up--sometimes to the point of irreparability.

If you just HAVE to try it yourself then go ahead and try the tap extractor but I think they have worked for me about three times in my life. If they are Magnum style heads it may be difficult due to the angle and if your tap is a tungsten/carbide deal then the weld method may be VERY difficult. My go to tool of choice is a masonry drill bit and I sharpen the bronzed on carbide tip on a diamond wheel to a specific angle/rake and sharpness--this is a last resort before the EDM is employed. J.Rob
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Another trick I have used is to cut a screwdriver slot in the top, with a highspeed die-grinder and a thin blade. I have had to grind into the base material to do this. A better welder than me filled the rut with some hard brass-colored rod. I dressed it down and was back in action.
 
Great idea, you could use a Dremmel tool with a small thin blade to cut the slot and maybe you wouldn't have any repair to make. You could use silicon bronze to repair the head if you notched it
 
A little story from the old days. In my Navy days, at NAS Miramar, I had a part time job at the auto hobby shop. Some guys were trying to change a fuel pump on a Falcon, and came over and said "they broke a bolt" and they "broke the easy out off" and now they "broke the drill they were trying to get the easy out with"

I said, "You HAVE to find someone who knows what they are doing, but a good torch man can cut the bolt out of there and the cast won't be damaged."

So they went to the tool room, and lied to the tool guy and said "oh yeah, we know how to..............." and got the torch set

THEN THEY came back over "look what you made us do" they had melded part of the mounting boss into a mess of black and gooey cast iron.

I told them only thing I knew to do was get a cover plate and a BUNCH of silcone (which was "brand new" on the market then) and see if they could seal it up. I'm sure to this day I get the blame for that
 
As a machinist I have removed many, many broken taps. People bring them to me all the time. There are numerous tricks that can help you get a broken tap out of a hole. A pic would really help here because the things that you can do are dependent on whether the broken tap is inside, flush or slightly protruding. Tap extractors are very useful if you're careful. Tap extractors will also break/fail if you put excessive pressure on them. Getting a small hammer and a flat punch to hit the broken tap on it's face will help dislodge the tap, this doesn't always work but it doesn't hurt to try. Putting "tap magic" in the hole will allow the tap to back out easier if you go with the tap extractor. If you can get a punch (small pointed punch) on the flukes of the tap you can try (carefully) to force it to unscrew. The reason we do this is that if you can get it to break loose then the tap extractor has a much better chance of working. If the tap is really jammed in there the tap extractor may not work BUT if you can break it loose with a punch it increases the chances of getting it out in one piece. You have to work very slowly and carefully because the tap is brittle and the more you hit it the more likely it is that it will break (which isn't a bad thing) but you need the exposed flukes to be able to hit them with the punch and hammer. I usually use a pointed punch (a small one) to hit each fluke just a little, you alternate to each fluke to distribute the load. If you can get the tap to move (even just a little) you'll greatly increase the chances of being successful with the tap extractor.
If the tap extractor fails, and as last resort, you can break the tap into a million pieces but the threads will get some damage in the process. You can also buy a carbide drill bit which will drill a hole in the tap. Carbide is much harder than the tap BUT BE CAREFUL because if you break the carbide drill in the tap you make things worse (I've had to do some of those "screw ups" also). Since the carbide drill is very, very hard (and brittle) it can't handle any radial loads (it won't flex like a regular drill bit). So if you put any radial/lateral load on the carbide bit it will break very easily.
You have no idea how happy you can make someone with a broken tap when they see a machinist walk into the room!!!!

PS - Don't beat yourself up too much.....I've also broken many taps because as a machinist I've had to tap millions of holes .....BUT don't tell anybody!!!!:rofl:

Treblig
 
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MileHighDart said:
Well McGuckin hardware does carry them, but of course they don't have a 5/16". Looks like I can buy one on Amazon, but then i'll be waiting a week for it to show up.
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Sign up for a free 30 day trail of Amazon prime, Then order it and you get free two day shipping. They even deliver on Sunday
 
Ok, here's a couple pics, its broken off just below the surface.

IMG_20170526_105231428.jpg


IMG_20170526_105236139.jpg
 
MileHighDart said:
Ok, here's a couple pics, its broken off just below the surface.

View attachment 1715051510

View attachment 1715051511
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Easy, It's not a blind hole which is what I was hoping for. Like Treblig already mentioned, get it wiggling and either turn it clockwise or counter-clockwise whichever. If that doesn't work, get a good hard sharp narrow punch and smash it into a thousand pieces then run another tap carefully through the now hopefully minimally damaged threads. J.Rob
 
The fact that it's down in a depression makes it more challenging. Now you'll need a long skinny punch with a point on it. You can take a regular long flat punch and grind a center point on it. The point will get beat up hitting the hard flukes but you can regrind it easily. The trick is to take your time. The first thing I always do is take a deep breath (I'm very impatient). Once I get nice and calm I start gently tapping on the flukes with the punch and hammer (GENTLY). Alternate from fluke to fluke. If you lived next door I jump over there and work on it for you. Did you find an Tap magic??

Treblig
 
RAMM beat me to it, take a punch and smash it out the bottom ,It will be the easiest way because I'm sure its tight that's why it broke off in the first place
 
If you can get to it from both ends you can also use 2 tap extractors at the same time so there's a lesser chance of breaking the tap extractors and a greater chance of breaking it loose.


And yes you can bust it right through the hole but you'll get some thread damage, I'd try to get it loose first because you can always bust it up as a last resort.
Treblig
 
How much of the tap is in there 1/4"? 1/2"? I guess should be the first thing to look at. If there is not much in there breaking it up would be easier but if there is tap all the way it's going to be hard to break up and remove that way.
 
383Scampman said:
Industrial suppliers will have tap extractors such as McMaster-Carr . there are others but I can't think of them at the moment . You need to be a business and have an account to purchase anything . You can have someone purchase it for you , though . Worth the effort .
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Not true, anyone can order from McMaster.
 
brian6pac said:
How much of the tap is in there 1/4"? 1/2"? I guess should be the first thing to look at. If there is not much in there breaking it up would be easier but if there is tap all the way it's going to be hard to break up and remove that way.
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I'd say 1/2", its actually sticking out the bottom of the hole just slightly, maybe 1/8"
Tomorrow I'm going to see if I can get ahold of the bottom end with some small vice grips or something and see if I can turn it, if so I could screw it on through and out the bottom.
Tried the punch ground to a point to try and get it to turn, but its down in the hole enough that I can only hit it in one place, cant go back and forth across the flutes.
 
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