Long-off 340 build

What kind of transmission setup would be best for street cruising?

  • 4-spd

    Votes: 10 38.5%
  • 4-spd w/ OD unit (like a GearVendors)

    Votes: 4 15.4%
  • Look for an applicable 5-spd

    Votes: 12 46.2%

  • Total voters
    26
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Agreed with personal differences noted.
(Bold text within the below quote.)But this just shows another way to skin the cat. And there are a lot of ways.
No reflection on Slopar here.

Well OP you asked for opinions and you got em' lol.....

If I were you and young lol (guessing you are as such), here would be the attack mode.

Mild small block. Keep the weight off the front end and make it easier to do maintenance. Aluminum heads, shorty headers, and 90 octane able.
Full length tti's.
I like a GV but for what you are talking about doing definitely not. I am not familiar with ratios in later model tranny's but it would be no less than a 5 speed. Hack the car as necessary to make it work. As much as I cussed the McCleod Dual Disk in a previous build it was a soft pedal and good street manners and mechanical throwhout bearing.
4spd auto (A-500) or a 5spd manual trans.
I am also not up to speed as to how to make an A body handle modern but it will come at a price. For me it would be a stock rebuild with good shocks, sway bars, and steering box. I would be OK with using rubber components also.
Add anti roll bars. (Sway bars.)
Brakes would be a focal point. Disk aren't necessary in the rear but a match percentage front to rear with disk up front is. Add assist to that (as I said Hydroboost earlier) and you have good brakes.

Screw the A/C. I don't need it for this type of build though it's nice if you want to enjoy it on hot days. And definitely a clean sounding and installed stereo.

And lastly, take every thought of using a carburetor and let it go. Fuel injection full steam ahead with an Intank.

I had the most enjoyment with my Dusters with being able to just enjoy driving them. Anyhoo that is what I would be looking to do.

JW.
 
Agreed with personal differences noted.
(Bold text within the below quote.)But this just shows another way to skin the cat. And there are a lot of ways.
No reflection on Slopar here.
Agreed with personal differences noted.
(Bold text within the below quote.)But this just shows another way to skin the cat. And there are a lot of ways.
No reflection on Slopar here.

I concede lol... Actually, I need to get a visual on the TTI's. I know they are nice. What rumblefish replied with still put the car in a more modern direction. I assume it's what the OP is asking about.

The list can go on and on even including delayed wipers which if I really wanted to drive the car would have them at some capacity. It's things like that which make the car more enjoyable to cruise around in...
 
My front disc brake equipped Demon did have a booster, but it's been turfed and I have non-assisted brakes now.

Save the space, weight and hassle. No need for a booster.
 
lol not going on attack mode, just making sure that my goal in mind is coming across clear so as to not lead anyone astray on their recommendations. Like slopar and rumblefish said, the list could go on and this could go in any direction, so I wanna try and stay aimed about close to what I had in mind (and yes I am on the young side, 25 to be exact, but unlike many of my peers I'm on track to a paying career and I've gotten this far without making too many bad decisions).

I already planned on aluminum heads, headers, and intake to cut the front-end weight (also heard about some guys wiring their battery from the trunk, supposedly better for both battery and weight dispersal, but that's a decision that can be tabled for much later on).

Even if I decide later not to do a full-disc conversion, I'd still be redoing the whole brake system. Like I said, I've heard horror stories about old brakes and even experienced a couple of my own, so that's something I won't leave up to chance. If I'm gonna have any surprises, I'd rather they cause my car to not go than cause it to not stop :eek:

I also don't plan to go too hog crazy with steering and suspension. The 4-or-6 link rear idea is just that, an idea, figured I'd wait and see how it drives with leafs and torsion bars. Besides, I drive mostly pickups so I know all about rough ride and sloppy steering. I'd dam well hope I know how to compensate for that by now! Handling on these cann't THAT bad, they're only 3353lbs factory weight so they don't weigh that much (for comparison, the tuner crowd's beloved R34 Skyline weighs 3386lbs).

Yeah I'm good without A/C (my daily driver doesn't have it anyways). A/C is just a luxury. Besides, I live in Oregon, wouldn't need it but for 3 months outta the year and for that it'd be dry and sunny enough for me to just crack open the window (certainly don't get blazing summers like SoCal). Seasons are pretty mild, winter at best brings a few weeks of freezing temps, worst offender is the rain (which is why rotisserie paint job is on my list). Just as long as it's up for running most of the year, which is why I'm geared for the efi. Anything else, interior or electric related, I know plenty of qualified people up for helping me out with wiring and stereo setup (stereo also low on priorities list).

I just got home a little while ago, but had a chance to stop and talk to my friend for a bit. While he doesn't stress the full-disc brake job, redoing the brakes is a definite must (unless in the off-chance they've already been done). Showed me the canister setup he used on the brakes on his 71 camaro. He vouched for the hydroboost route but reminded me on what they usually cost to setup (again, price is not a primary factor here, although I'm sure it is for a lot of guys). Also noted that since I'm more or less deadset on a stick, I don't need to go through factoring stall speed for a TC. That and options for brakes gives me a broader cam horizon
 
I dunno, I never even consider an automatic. I suppose I will when Im old and my knees are gone.
 
lol not going on attack mode, just making sure that my goal in mind is coming across clear so as to not lead anyone astray on their recommendations. Like slopar and rumblefish said, the list could go on and this could go in any direction, so I wanna try and stay aimed about close to what I had in mind (and yes I am on the young side, 25 to be exact, but unlike many of my peers I'm on track to a paying career and I've gotten this far without making too many bad decisions).

I already planned on aluminum heads, headers, and intake to cut the front-end weight (also heard about some guys wiring their battery from the trunk, supposedly better for both battery and weight dispersal, but that's a decision that can be tabled for much later on).

Even if I decide later not to do a full-disc conversion, I'd still be redoing the whole brake system. Like I said, I've heard horror stories about old brakes and even experienced a couple of my own, so that's something I won't leave up to chance. If I'm gonna have any surprises, I'd rather they cause my car to not go than cause it to not stop :eek:

I also don't plan to go too hog crazy with steering and suspension. The 4-or-6 link rear idea is just that, an idea, figured I'd wait and see how it drives with leafs and torsion bars. Besides, I drive mostly pickups so I know all about rough ride and sloppy steering. I'd dam well hope I know how to compensate for that by now! Handling on these cann't THAT bad, they're only 3353lbs factory weight so they don't weigh that much (for comparison, the tuner crowd's beloved R34 Skyline weighs 3386lbs).

Yeah I'm good without A/C (my daily driver doesn't have it anyways). A/C is just a luxury. Besides, I live in Oregon, wouldn't need it but for 3 months outta the year and for that it'd be dry and sunny enough for me to just crack open the window (certainly don't get blazing summers like SoCal). Seasons are pretty mild, winter at best brings a few weeks of freezing temps, worst offender is the rain (which is why rotisserie paint job is on my list). Just as long as it's up for running most of the year, which is why I'm geared for the efi. Anything else, interior or electric related, I know plenty of qualified people up for helping me out with wiring and stereo setup (stereo also low on priorities list).

I just got home a little while ago, but had a chance to stop and talk to my friend for a bit. While he doesn't stress the full-disc brake job, redoing the brakes is a definite must (unless in the off-chance they've already been done). Showed me the canister setup he used on the brakes on his 71 camaro. He vouched for the hydroboost route but reminded me on what they usually cost to setup (again, price is not a primary factor here, although I'm sure it is for a lot of guys). Also noted that since I'm more or less deadset on a stick, I don't need to go through factoring stall speed for a TC. That and options for brakes gives me a broader cam horizon


As for 3 pedals, you want to do that atleast once in your life in a musclecar. Nothing like it and it adds to the fun of driving them.... I personally enjoyed inline shifters myself (Long/Vertigate) but am good without it now lol...

As for the brakes and cost, it was right at 900.00 for Hydroboost, Late Model MC, and adjustable proportioning valve. You want good brakes in your life so suck it up buttercup and eat Bologna sandwiches for a while lol....

Something else which you have made mention of is doing the work yourself. I will say this with a broad paintbrush but nothing compares to doing the work yourself. There willl always be cases where it just doesn't add up time and dollar wise but for many people including myself if someone does all the work for you then what fun is that lol... In fact, I may start a thread just to see what people say guys like you who are starting out in the hobby need.... It would be an interesting read lol...

JW
 
As for 3 pedals, you want to do that atleast once in your life in a musclecar. Nothing like it and it adds to the fun of driving them.... I personally enjoyed inline shifters myself (Long/Vertigate) but am good without it now lol...

As for the brakes and cost, it was right at 900.00 for Hydroboost, Late Model MC, and adjustable proportioning valve. You want good brakes in your life so suck it up buttercup and eat Bologna sandwiches for a while lol....

Something else which you have made mention of is doing the work yourself. I will say this with a broad paintbrush but nothing compares to doing the work yourself. There willl always be cases where it just doesn't add up time and dollar wise but for many people including myself if someone does all the work for you then what fun is that lol... In fact, I may start a thread just to see what people say guys like you who are starting out in the hobby need.... It would be an interesting read lol...

JW
Nothing compares to doing the work yourself. You come to appreciate the effort and know-how that it takes to get something done, and you don't take it so lightly. I was raised to do just about everything on my own, from auto work right down to cooking I was raised doing anything that I could do myself. Besides, my ideal friday night was always spent in the garage or at the workbench wrenching (a socket wrench was my go-to fidget spinner before they even became a thing lol). Only time and resources are ever my limiting factors

Yeah driving stick is fun, but a lot less fun if it's bolted in something weak like my Ranger. Gets good mileage, but D@MN is it a turd on the highway (put it to full throttle yet still watch a Prius pass you). Downshifting is also kinda rough unless you heel-toe

$900 for the hydroboost? I don't see why not. I can do the main brake work, get the cylinder and booster in and then find out whether I'll be able to do the hydroboost work myself or have it done.

Been doing the lookup on transmissions still. I've noted that Passon A-855 but so far it looks like they got a long waiting list on those (I'll wait and see where that list is at down the road by the time I get my plans underway). Having parts in case something breaks is also a concern, can't say high demand would bode well for parts support
 
$900 for the hydroboost? I don't see why not. I can do the main brake work, get the cylinder and booster in and then find out whether I'll be able to do the hydroboost work myself or have it done.

Don't sell yourself short or think installing it is an overly complicated process..... It's not and with basic handtools you can easily accomplish this part of your build. Follow me and in a few weeks you will see a thread about my installation which really is not a big deal and I will also scan the installation instructions. The only complaint I have with it may get resolved when I can get my hands on the car in my shop lol.... I am currently kidnapped by a ford owner and until I escape (lol) duster work is in limbo...

JW
 
So you're worried about old brakes, and you're worried about money.

New brakes on a Demon cost around $60 a corner at the rear, half that for the front. That includes new drums, new shoes, new slave cylinders, new hardware, new hoses and new front pads.

Skip a few lattes and you'll have saved enough to afford new brake fluid, too.

YOU DON'T NEED A BOOSTER.
 
So you're worried about old brakes, and you're worried about money.

New brakes on a Demon cost around $60 a corner at the rear, half that for the front. That includes new drums, new shoes, new slave cylinders, new hardware, new hoses and new front pads.

Skip a few lattes and you'll have saved enough to afford new brake fluid, too.

YOU DON'T NEED A BOOSTER.
My original point was actually that money is a minor factor, if I was concerned about price I'd just get a worn out Duster or regular Dart with a junkyard 360 and an NV3500 5spd from a Dakota. I was downplaying the cost of the hydroboost with my comment. The only thing that remotely concerns me price-wise is the Passon 855 tranny (somewhere north of $4K), with that I'm more concerned about the quality of the parts and the parts support (for a unit that currently has a high waiting list)
 
So you're worried about old brakes, and you're worried about money.

New brakes on a Demon cost around $60 a corner at the rear, half that for the front. That includes new drums, new shoes, new slave cylinders, new hardware, new hoses and new front pads.

Skip a few lattes and you'll have saved enough to afford new brake fluid, too.

YOU DON'T NEED A BOOSTER.
Dang that's cheap! What state do you live in?
 
So you're worried about old brakes, and you're worried about money.

New brakes on a Demon cost around $60 a corner at the rear, half that for the front. That includes new drums, new shoes, new slave cylinders, new hardware, new hoses and new front pads.

Skip a few lattes and you'll have saved enough to afford new brake fluid, too.

YOU DON'T NEED A BOOSTER.
If I may probe a bit, why are you against the power-brakes route?
 
Took a break from my term project and ended up looking at single-plane intakes (I just pulled a whole variety in a list since cam choice is still TBD):

Mopar Performance
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/dcc-4529408/overview/make/dodge

Edelbrock
Torker II - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-5076/overview/make/dodge
Victor - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-2920/overview/make/dodge
Victor - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-2915/overview/make/dodge
Super Victor - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-2815/overview/make/dodge
Torker II - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-50761/overview/make/dodge

Offenhauser (never heard of em)
Port-O Sonic - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ofy-6074/overview/make/dodge
Port-O Sonic - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ofy-6073/overview/make/dodge

Good to know there's options

Side question: how generous are the wheel wells on a Demon? I've heard the original tires were 165/80R14 but idk just how much more liberal the wheelwells are.

Mopar Rallye Wheels | Chrysler Rallye Wheels
BF Goodrich Redline Radial Tires | BF Goodrich Redline Tires
BF Goodrich Radial TA | BF Goodrich Radial T/A

I kinda like the Rallye wheels, considering the 15x8 or 15x7 (luckily can be found in both 5x4" and 5x4.5" bolt patterns), and thinking in the ballpark of 225/60R15, but don't wanna be going too much past stock size. What size tires ya got on yours Gorsky?
 
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If I may probe a bit, why are you against the power-brakes route?

I'm not against them, per se, its just that you seem to be fearful of owning an old car with sh1t brakes and you've stated a desire to move heaven and earth (at great unnecessary expense) to avoid a braking catastrophe.

Look, if you're going to be hooking around town at breakneck speeds and regularly hitting 100mph somewhere or other...sure get a booster to provide you with a little more confidence that the car will stop. My point is that you don't need to go to that trouble and expense if you don't have to.

I've spent many years driving cars with ABS. When you step into a car without ABS, you need to re-calibrate your thinking. Back off, leave more room, drive slower. When you do those things, your need for extra braking assistance is reduced. Also reduced (on a Demon without a booster) is complexity, weight and cost. You have a cleaner engine bay and you have better reliability (because you have less bits under the hood that can fail).
 
I'm not against them, per se, its just that you seem to be fearful of owning an old car with sh1t brakes and you've stated a desire to move heaven and earth (at great unnecessary expense) to avoid a braking catastrophe.

Look, if you're going to be hooking around town at breakneck speeds and regularly hitting 100mph somewhere or other...sure get a booster to provide you with a little more confidence that the car will stop. My point is that you don't need to go to that trouble and expense if you don't have to.

I've spent many years driving cars with ABS. When you step into a car without ABS, you need to re-calibrate your thinking. Back off, leave more room, drive slower. When you do those things, your need for extra braking assistance is reduced. Also reduced (on a Demon without a booster) is complexity, weight and cost. You have a cleaner engine bay and you have better reliability (because you have less bits under the hood that can fail).
Oh, well given that reasoning, I feel there's something I need to clarify: the power brakes aren't so much a preventative measure against myself or anything that I may do. I'm not stupid enough to go "hooking around town at breakneck speeds". They're more a counter-measure against the rampant stupidity of some of the other drivers out there. I'll admit I've done SOME stupid stuff screwing around, but I've never gotten into an accident, even if there's always a first time for everything. Only time I ever filled out insurance info was when someone backed into my Jeep at a gas station (it happens to everyone eventually). Regardless, I've seen some stupidity that trumps anything I've ever done or would ever consider doing. Usually an out-of-stater jumping lanes or swerving in front of a semi like an idiot (Darwin-award nominee), but the point is there's plenty of em out there. I want that extra measure of braking so I can hope to avoid them. True, power brakes give me a bit more wiggle room in how I can drive, but I also don't wanna wreck my pride and joy just because some d!p$h*t hasn't heard of a mirror or turn signal.
 
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I am in the process of taking a simple route with my car. I am putting an early gear set out of the '64-5 a-body a833 with the 3.09 first gear versus the 2.66 into a later model a833 with the slip style output shaft. For the rear axel I am using a 9" out of a Lincoln Versailles. It has disc brakes and a 2.97 (if I remember correctly), kind of poor mans overdrive transmission setup.For the front discs I use the larger rotors and caliper brackets off a Córdoba.
 
go with a manual trans. I run a straight a833 with 4.3 gear and a 28" tire. flowmasters sound like junk, my 1.75" hooker headers and edelbrock 2.5" muffs sound great. go dual plane intake, and do not be afraid of some decent compression ratio and some amount of cam
 
Late to the party again.... LOL. I just looked this thread over, and on the brakes:

- With this car and weight, there really is not any need for power brakes. And drum brakes out back of the size available work just fine. I have raced rally cars for many years with cars that had large rear drums and discs up front and never had any stopping power issues.

- The reason to go to rear discs is for cooling capacity more than anything. Drums are limited for heat dissipation, and if you are going to be using the brakes a lot (like it sounds you may be) then the rear discs may be a good idea. But, if you are sticking with stock wheel sizes, then your front disc size will be limited, and realize that the front disc size will become the heat limiting factor.

- As far as the power brakes, again, there is PLENTY of stopping power with manual brakes for this car weight. The biggest things that guys miss out on thinking of brakes it the pad material. Read up on 'coefficient of friction' and understand that if you move from a CoF of 0.3 to 0.4, then your brake torque just went up by 33% with that same pedal pressure. So you can make up a lot with simple pad selection. I can promise you if you push the pad CoF up to the 0.4 range or higher, then the brakes will likely be better than you have ever experienced.

- And, if you eliminate the power booster, then you will have a bit better to a lot better brake modulation, depending on the booster.

So I would encourage you to go with manual brakes, and do it right, and take those restrictions out of the engine equation.

As far as the Thmpr cam and engine, that categorically is not the type of cam you want for your use. You need a wide torque RPM range for spirited driving in hills and mountains; you never know for sure which will be the best gear in the next turn, and a wide RPM torque range will be a big help to make up for suboptimum gearing. That calls for higher compression ratio for low RPM torque, and good breathing parts for high RPM torque.

It sounds like you are thinking about Edelbrock aluminum heads, and that will help with both of the above factors. Then the cam can be selected to not kill torque at either end of the RPM range and not put the engine into where it will likely detonate on pump hi-test. This type of engine combination is all pretty well known.

Headers? Absolutely! They will help all through the RPM range and help fuel economy too. Spend the $$ on good ones that fit well, and tuck the exhaust system up under the car good a tight. The last thing you want in 'spirited driving' is to go through a dip and bash the exhaust system!

Sorry, but the fan/rad combo is not all that good. Champions are not known for being particularly good. And electric fans can be OK or can be crap. It depends on the fan blade design, and the shrouding. This Derale fan does not impress me at all. The flow figures given are for free flow, and the poor fans' flow will drop into the toilet with any small restriction.....like the pressure drop of a radiator.

So put your cooling system plans on hold for now. I'd encourage you to read up a lot in the cooling system forum here.
 
- With this car and weight, there really is not any need for power brakes. And drum brakes out back of the size available work just fine. I have raced rally cars for many years with cars that had large rear drums and discs up front and never had any stopping power issues.

- The reason to go to rear discs is for cooling capacity more than anything. Drums are limited for heat dissipation, and if you are going to be using the brakes a lot (like it sounds you may be) then the rear discs may be a good idea. But, if you are sticking with stock wheel sizes, then your front disc size will be limited, and realize that the front disc size will become the heat limiting factor.

- As far as the power brakes, again, there is PLENTY of stopping power with manual brakes for this car weight. The biggest things that guys miss out on thinking of brakes it the pad material. Read up on 'coefficient of friction' and understand that if you move from a CoF of 0.3 to 0.4, then your brake torque just went up by 33% with that same pedal pressure. So you can make up a lot with simple pad selection. I can promise you if you push the pad CoF up to the 0.4 range or higher, then the brakes will likely be better than you have ever experienced.

- And, if you eliminate the power booster, then you will have a bit better to a lot better brake modulation, depending on the booster.

So I would encourage you to go with manual brakes, and do it right, and take those restrictions out of the engine equation.
So at this point there's almost an even split on power brakes and no power brakes. My main list of options is do the whole full-disc w/ power boost brakes, do power boost with just front-disc/rear-drums, or do full-disc manual brakes. I'll consider these options, but I was on the fence about opting for just manual brakes. I know they'd work fine for something light like a Datsun 510 but wasn't sure if the same is true for ~3300lbs like a Demon. If I do go manual brakes, full-disc would be the minimum.

The thumper wasn't my "choice" per se, it was just a placeholder for a cam option. If it comes down to it I'll just have to hold off til I get the car, see how a 340 does with stock cam and work my way up from there.
You need a wide torque RPM range for spirited driving in hills and mountains; you never know for sure which will be the best gear in the next turn, and a wide RPM torque range will be a big help to make up for suboptimum gearing. That calls for higher compression ratio for low RPM torque, and good breathing parts for high RPM torque.
Definitely applies since I live in the hills and it's a twisty half-hour commute to town. That situation may change, hopefully it doesn't, but that'll be my optimal driving situation

tuck the exhaust system up under the car good a tight. The last thing you want in 'spirited driving' is to go through a dip and bash the exhaust system!
That's also why I don't plan on lowering the car, and tbh I don't find ride-dropping on old cars all that appealing. Anyways yes, nothing hanging below the scrub line

Sorry, but the fan/rad combo is not all that good. Champions are not known for being particularly good. And electric fans can be OK or can be crap. It depends on the fan blade design, and the shrouding. This Derale fan does not impress me at all. The flow figures given are for free flow, and the poor fans' flow will drop into the toilet with any small restriction.....like the pressure drop of a radiator.

So put your cooling system plans on hold for now. I'd encourage you to read up a lot in the cooling system forum here.
Again, like the cam the fan and radiator were placeholders. The radiator was mainly in case the stock radiator is either trashed or missing. As for the fan my concern was something that could move decent air past the rad and actually spanned most of the radiator. From my research I gathered that, besides the differences in quality across brands, electric fans generally provided more benefit over pulley-driven. Similar flow, less power-drain and can stay spooled up when the car is sitting idle (important for summer driving).
 
Side-track off the main thread topic:

Got home a bit ago, taking a break (one class down, 2 to go). Hopped on and a few clicks later ended up watching one of the MT hot rod garage vids for Tony's Greemon build
Bunch of comments saying Tony's engine seize was because of oil contamination on part of "the orange can". Is fram really that bad of an oil filter or is it being blown outta proportion?
 
I don't think I was the filter as much as it was an oiling failure killing the bearings.
People in that video were claiming that the oiling failure was caused by a clog due to oil contamination, which supposedly was because of the filter. All I know is I run the off-the-shelf fram filters in both my pickups and haven't seen any issues, but differing circumstances I guess
 
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