Wrap around sub frame connectors

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Scamp Fasty

Scamp Fasty

Going Nowhere Fast
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Have you used wrap around sub frame ties like the XRT from magnumforce
Tubular subframe connectors A-body Mopar
or home made ones like them? Curious what you think? Weld in vs. bolt in? I'm looking at something other than the weld in floor ties.
I really liked the the idea of the XRT style but when I got them they are not as advertised and need more fabricating. So now I am rethinking the whole idea as they will looked like a cobbled mess when they are done. Very disappointed in product.
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Everything you buy will require some modification or fabricating. Chassis flex, things get bent... You just need to get comfortable with a welder and grinder.

Perhaps they should mention there will be some mods needed.

What don't you like? Send them back if you're dissatisfied or give them a call.

Got anyone around that can do the install?
 
Krooser said:
Everything you buy will require some modification or fabricating. Chassis flex, things get bent... You just need to get comfortable with a welder and grinder.

Perhaps they should mention there will be some mods needed.

What don't you like? Send them back if you're dissatisfied or give them a call.

Got anyone around that can do the install?
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Yeah, I just got them Friday night and they do not open till Monday.. I was just surprised to see them in two pieces that are meant to be bolted together. When they are clearly advertised as a one piece, solid connector. I can weld them solid but if they were powder coated what would I have done then? I will call them this week, but I'm sure they won't care. I also wonder if this is a redesign from their original on piece.
 
like Krooser said, anything is going to require some sort of messing with
Scamp Fasty said:
...as they will looked like a cobbled mess when they are done.
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not sure what parts going to look cobbled together. if they didn't have a way to account for the variances in these cars most people would have trouble fitting them. i would be ticked off the pics on their site make it look like they are not bolt together
 
I'm interested in their response as I was considering a set for my E body. Let us know how they treat you on this.
 
But they're available in purple.

Seriously though, and no offense to the OP, but stuff like this pops up all the time. Kinda reminds me of some of the tubular control arms some of these companies make. They're more interested in flashy looks than anything else. Yeah they look cool and are available in colors to match your car seats, but what else is there?

IMO, the US CarTool has the design DEAD NUTS ACCURATE. I say that because they're made just like the unibody frame rails. No glitz. No glitter. No multitude of available powder coated colors. Those things look like they can work, but the function is secondary to looks, IMO. They look cool, though. People buy the hell outta thins that look cool. Pay way too much for it, too.
 
Honestly, these look pretty nice to me. I started to build some sub-frame connectors (kind-of similar to those you have pictured), then I decided to buy some. I bought the US Car Tool connectors. They weld to the floor-boards. They are really nice high-quality sub-frame connectors. A very nice product IMHO. Of course matching all the floorboard contours requires more than a little massaging! PITA. If you have good (new) floor boards, they weld up ok. (I did.) But welding between the floorboards and the subframe connectors is tricky because the subframe connectors are much thicker than [brand new] floor boards. Also, If the floorboards are rusty: for get it. You need to replace those first. Oh, and the US Car Tool kind block the e-brake cable, so you need to work that issue! The ones you have pictured would probably work with the stock e-brake cable. (I could be wrong.) Also, I had to modify the rear-connections a bit. I didn't really care for the way the rear connections were done...

If I were to do it again I think I'd just make the a pair similar to these you have pictured;-)
 
From your photos it looks like they are adjustable for length which is probably a good thing because we all know the differences between our cars, even the same models. But then again Magnumforce should have let their customers know that. Not directed at the OP, but if they were one piece and people had to modify them to fit, everyone would be bitchin' about that!

Jeff
 
I'm with Rusty on this one. The US Cartool ones are the way to go. Installed a set on an Aspen. Very slick. Yes, you'll have to grind for "perfect" fit. That's what fill rod or wire is for, lol.
 
Well, I just got off the phone. They told me it was a change so that it would accommodate the differences in how the cars were made. Cool, I get. I was also told if I wanted a solid one built I could exchange it and go that route, not sure about the shipping part as it was hard to hear over the phone. I am going to see if they fit without a gap in the spacer, if it looks good I'll probably get them remade and have a seamless connector. If not a good tight fit, I will make the chopped up ones work out. They seem to want to work with me so that is good:) I hate complaining about anything but I should get what I thought I was buying. Yeah it is just a couple welds but if any of you purchased a sway bar would you expect it came with a coupler that you weld them together with?
 
DrEamer said:
I'm interested in their response as I was considering a set for my E body. Let us know how they treat you on this.
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If you are getting these for an E-body you better call first. They said those come as a two piece now but I'm sure it can come as one as they build them solid then hack'em up with a band saw.
 
I'd return them.The us cartool ones are the way to go.I cant see the bolt in ones doing as good of a job.Again,just my opinion
 
It's just a couple of welds but what about the powder coat?
 
Scamp Fasty said:
Have you used wrap around sub frame ties like the XRT from magnumforce
Tubular subframe connectors A-body Mopar
or home made ones like them? Curious what you think? Weld in vs. bolt in? I'm looking at something other than the weld in floor ties.
I really liked the the idea of the XRT style but when I got them they are not as advertised and need more fabricating. So now I am rethinking the whole idea as they will looked like a cobbled mess when they are done. Very disappointed in product.View attachment 1715384292 View attachment 1715384293 View attachment 1715384294
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I have not used those, (or bolt in's at all) but I will tell you that I wouldn't even bother with bolt in at the sub frame points unless the subframe was fitted with tubes inside them to keep the metal from crushing.
Otherwise they will be pretty much pointless.

As far as having to weld those once fitted to the car, it wouldn't bother me a whole lot to blow the coating off and do it.
Be nice if you could get them to recoat after welding, but I don't see that happening unless it was paid extra for.
 
TrailBeast said:
I have not used those, (or bolt in's at all) but I will tell you that I wouldn't even bother with bolt in at the sub frame points unless the subframe was fitted with tubes inside them to keep the metal from crushing.
Otherwise they will be pretty much pointless.

As far as having to weld those once fitted to the car, it wouldn't bother me a whole lot to blow the coating off and do it.
Be nice if you could get them to recoat after welding, but I don't see that happening unless it was paid extra for.
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Good call, I read here on FABO that somebody did use small pipe pieces to keep sub frame from crushing, looks like a PITA but I agree it sounds a bit more stout than without them. I wanted them bare metal also because everything needs adjusting/grinding/welding. Once Powder coated they should be ready to just slap in, right? I planned on test fitting and adjusting accordingly, then I can Powder coat them myself if it is going smooth. If it becomes too much hassle them sons of B*&%$!@ is getting welded in place a coated with Krylon undercarriage black. I'm sure it will be OK, I just want to start this on the right foot and not regret an easy fix once I start.
I am still not sure till I do a good test fit, My luck my car will have a twist or be assembled poorly and I would have to modify any connector lol.
 
Don't know if this has been mentioned, you probably know already. Be sure chassis is loaded before welding. As in, not on a hoist. As it would be on the wheels.
 
408 swinger said:
Don't know if this has been mentioned, you probably know already. Be sure chassis is loaded before welding. As in, not on a hoist. As it would be on the wheels.
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That's a big 10-4. I've heard of guys installing other connectors while on a 2-post lift and when put on the ground...doors were stuck. Ha Ha, don't need that it ain't the Gen. Lee
 
Scamp Fasty said:
Have you used wrap around sub frame ties like the XRT from magnumforce or home made ones like them? Curious what you think? Weld in vs. bolt in? I'm looking at something other than the weld in floor ties.
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After looking at the commercial offerings, I am currently working on a DIY solution as documented by @72bluNblu and other FABO members - example: Best Subframe Connectors
 
Gdub310 said:
After looking at the commercial offerings, I am currently working on a DIY solution as documented by @72bluNblu and other FABO members - example: Best Subframe Connectors
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I like those too. If the torque boxes are framed in it should work as good as any I would think. It seems that these cars just need a little bit more strength from front of rear spring to backside of front frame member. Not too ground breaking but they need something. If I started over I would be going that route, much cheaper and not all that hard to build. I do admit I'm not the best welder but if I hide my welds under the car seems like a good place to practice.
 
About the only thing I like about the magnumforce design is that they capture and reinforce the torsion bar cross member. Other than that they seem kinda gimicky. You can do the same thing with a large landing plate. I don't know why Magnumforce is still using round tubing, they're the only ones that do.

As for the US Cartool connectors, I installed a set on my Dart. And I could tell you I'd never do it again unless I was working on a car that had been media blasted and was on a rotisserie. There's probably 10x as much welding to install the US Cartool connectors as anything else, and if you're doing it upside down with the slag falling on you it gets old real fast. On that note, I know of more than a few cars that have had subframe connectors installed while on rotisseries. The chassis does not need to be loaded for installation, just don't be stupid about it.

As for powdercoating and all that, I've installed a set of Hotchkis subframes too. They come all nice and completely powdercoated. And you still have to remove the powdercoating at the ends where all the welds go, just the way it is. You can't make subframes for these cars without allowing for body tolerances, no matter which ones you use you will need to do some fitting to make them work on your car. The US Cartool connectors require a crap ton of fitting to get them nicely gapped to the floor panels.
 
72bluNblu said:
The US Cartool connectors require a crap ton of fitting to get them nicely gapped to the floor panels.
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Well, of course they do, No two of these cars are the same. Plus, this is hot rodding. If you're gonna do it, you're in for a penny, in for a pound or you may as well stay on the porch.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Well, of course they do, No two of these cars are the same. Plus, this is hot rodding. If you're gonna do it, you're in for a penny, in for a pound or you may as well stay on the porch.
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While all of that is true, I'm not sure you really appreciate how big of a pain in the *** those US Cartool subframe connectors are. It was easier and less time consuming for me to make my own subframe connectors from scratch. And quite frankly I don't think the US Cartool subframes do a better job at stiffening the chassis. In my opinion that's a toss up, and without a full finite element analysis on the chassis all anyone can have on the matter is an opinion.

It's not that the US Cartool subframes are bad- they're well made, high quality pieces just like everything else I've seen from US Cartool. But their design means that literally every inch of the entire length of the subframe connector has to be fit to the floor and welded. That's just a ton of surface to fit and weld. I understand why people like them, they do look more factory once they're installed. Which is exactly why I installed them on my Dart, it's a matching numbers car and I wanted to keep up some of those appearances while still making some improvements. But after installing them, there's no way I'd ever install them again unless- 1. The car has been fully media blasted, because wire wheeling the areas to be welded isn't enough 2. The car is on a rotisserie to allow for easy access

Absent those things, the US Cartool connectors are more trouble than they're worth. I've made my own subframe connectors, I've installed Hotchkis subframe connectors, I've installed US Cartool connectors. On an A-body, where the subframe connector is pretty much just a straight shot from rear rail to the crossmember, I honestly think it's just as easy to make your own as do anything else. The Hotchkis connectors are almost exactly what I made myself. I love US Cartool's other products- torque boxes, forward braces, lower radiator supports, etc. But their subframe connectors are seriously labor intensive, even compared to the other connectors out there. And expensive. For $208 you get a raw piece of 16 gauge steel that was laser cut and then bent into a rail shape. For $277 you can get a set of Hotchkis connectors, which are tubular, welded, and fully powdercoated. And for $50-$100 you can make your own out of 1.5"x3" tubing and replicate what Hotchkis sells in a few hours, and have them installed in a few hours more.

I just don't see the US Cartool connectors doing the job so much better that they're worth all that extra time and labor compared to say the Hotchkis connectors, which is another great company with a reputation for great handling cars. They do just as much or more testing as anyone, and the subframes they sell are tubular and much easier to install.
 
408 swinger said:
Don't know if this has been mentioned, you probably know already. Be sure chassis is loaded before welding. As in, not on a hoist. As it would be on the wheels.
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That way , u can weld the twist that may be in it to last forever !
 
72bluNblu said:
While all of that is true, I'm not sure you really appreciate how big of a pain in the *** those US Cartool subframe connectors are. It was easier and less time consuming for me to make my own subframe connectors from scratch. And quite frankly I don't think the US Cartool subframes do a better job at stiffening the chassis. In my opinion that's a toss up, and without a full finite element analysis on the chassis all anyone can have on the matter is an opinion.

It's not that the US Cartool subframes are bad- they're well made, high quality pieces just like everything else I've seen from US Cartool. But their design means that literally every inch of the entire length of the subframe connector has to be fit to the floor and welded. That's just a ton of surface to fit and weld. I understand why people like them, they do look more factory once they're installed. Which is exactly why I installed them on my Dart, it's a matching numbers car and I wanted to keep up some of those appearances while still making some improvements. But after installing them, there's no way I'd ever install them again unless- 1. The car has been fully media blasted, because wire wheeling the areas to be welded isn't enough 2. The car is on a rotisserie to allow for easy access

Absent those things, the US Cartool connectors are more trouble than they're worth. I've made my own subframe connectors, I've installed Hotchkis subframe connectors, I've installed US Cartool connectors. On an A-body, where the subframe connector is pretty much just a straight shot from rear rail to the crossmember, I honestly think it's just as easy to make your own as do anything else. The Hotchkis connectors are almost exactly what I made myself. I love US Cartool's other products- torque boxes, forward braces, lower radiator supports, etc. But their subframe connectors are seriously labor intensive, even compared to the other connectors out there. And expensive. For $208 you get a raw piece of 16 gauge steel that was laser cut and then bent into a rail shape. For $277 you can get a set of Hotchkis connectors, which are tubular, welded, and fully powdercoated. And for $50-$100 you can make your own out of 1.5"x3" tubing and replicate what Hotchkis sells in a few hours, and have them installed in a few hours more.

I just don't see the US Cartool connectors doing the job so much better that they're worth all that extra time and labor compared to say the Hotchkis connectors, which is another great company with a reputation for great handling cars. They do just as much or more testing as anyone, and the subframes they sell are tubular and much easier to install.
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I whole heartedly agree ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I have about $18.00 in the 2" square tubing I bought for mine , and yes it was after the "supposedly" , big jump in metal prices.
2" will fit inside the rear frame rails , and weld full length to the floor notch, (makes them very strong) ,and of course to the trans crossmember.
The tubing stuck thru the floor 3/4" , so I took 3/4 foilfaced closed cell insulation to fill around it before putting the new carpet in , you cant tell their even there .
 
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