Faceplated 833 4 Speed

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1975abody

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I see that there's not a whole lot of information in regards to faceplated 833 transmissions.

I am going to share my experience with assembly and results of having a faceplated transmission.

I sent my gear set to Libertys Gears for the faceplating machine work, cryo treatment, and thermal stabilization.

Turnaround time time was about 1 month. When I received the gears, I was very impressed with the welding,machine work, and surface finish.

What Libertys did not tell me, even though I specifically asked them, is that the trans does not go together like a stock gearset. Due to the faceplates on 4th gear, re-assembly requires that the cluster gear lays in the bottom of the case then drop the mainshaft assembly into place, lift the cluster gear in place, then slide the arbor through the cluster gear. Keep in mind that the cluster gear thrust washers have to be held in place during this process.

The next challenge that Libertys did not tell me about, is that a special 3-4 fork needs to be purchased from Libertys, as the stock fork hits the case before engaging 4th gear.

I also have a Libertys modified shift cover, and I radiused and polished the shift selector detents, and shortened the shift levers so that my Hurst RamRod only has about 3" of travel between the gears.

First driving impressions were exactly what I expected, very harsh and loud shifts.

I've been daily driving it to work for about 2 weeks. I've got it to the point that I can down shift as silently and smoothly as a synchro box.

Ive found that if I let the rpm drop to an idle between up shifts, it will silently drop into gear.

I've read numerous posts from people that say that it needs to be slammed into gear regardless of rpm or whether it is being granny shifted or powershifted. My combo of aluminum flywheel, .528" DC solid lifter cam and 3:55's does not require this style of shifting.

As for no lift foot to the floor powershifting at 6500 rpm... it's effing amazing !!!

This is by far the best modification I've ever done to the car. I will never have another syncro'd trans again!

I have another box on the bench that needs rebuilt, and it will be faceplated shortly. In my case the syncro teeth on the speed gears were wiped out anyway, so faceplatingin this case was cheaper than buying a new gearset.

If anyone is considering this, I would encourage them to do it!!
Don't listen to all the horror stories that people post saying that they are not suited for serious street miles. If you take the time to understand your how your combination wants to be shifted, you will be able to shift smoothly and silently under normal driving, and when you want to play some high rpm shifting games, just tap the clutch and pull a gear.

The strangest part was training my left leg to keep up with my right hand, after so many years of shifting with synchros.
 
I ran a 4+1 doug nash for a couple 5 years and agree that its very doable. It wasnt the dog ears you are running, but no syncro, every other energizer tooth, (albeit halved the life of the gear) ran just fine, (although loud in my case) on the street. Very quick shifts with a V-gate. Needless to say I could pull that trans and install my backup in about an hour and 45. Your pieces look like they would last and not as noisy as they are cut at an angle. (Richmond race/doug nash were straight cut). Very cool! Thank you for sharing!

Do you have any pictures of the sliders? The inside of the slider to be precise.
 
I can't remember but it seems to me you have to hold the shifter in gear or every time you back off the throttle it will come out of gear. Is that true? I know it is when you slick shift them.
 
I can't remember but it seems to me you have to hold the shifter in gear or every time you back off the throttle it will come out of gear. Is that true? I know it is when you slick shift them.

Not with the faceplating...at least so far.according to Libertys they've seen them look like new after 50,000 miles and also be totally destroyed after a few thousand.

I think longevity depends on how it's shifted throughout its lifespan.

I'm hoping since I've figured out how to shift it with little to no clunking, it will have a long and happy life.

High rpm powershifting it feels like it would last for ever.

I have rattled the plates a few times, which I think is probably the worst thing for it..
 
Thanks for sharing! I have a few questions also. One picture shows a modified? brass ring, are they used in the assembly? Could you post the sliders? Did Liberty describe the modifications to you or are they on their web page? What case are you using? The reason I ask the last question is I was thinking about having an early OD case bushed front and rear on the countershaft supports. Thanks for your time.
 
Those gears do look nice. Can someone please tell me what faceplating is? Never heard of it.
Also, what is meant by 'no lift foot to the floor powershifting'?
Thanks
 
Great thread,Thanks for sharing! I've wondered how one would do with double clutching or float shifting on the street. I would imagine that's what your duplicating when you let it come back to idle during soft up shifts. Your giving it enough time for the input rpm to match the rpm of what the main shaft will be running at in the next gear. Face plating loosely explained Face Plate/Pro Shift Gear Modifications | Liberty's Gears
Power shifting is keeping the throttle wide open during the shifts and only keeping the clutch disconnected long enough to unload the transmission enough to cram it into the next gear.
 
I know what powershifting is. I am not familiar with what is meant by 'no lift foot to the floor' powershifting. I guess he could have meant that you don't lift the gas pedal foot, and you slam the clutch pedal to the floor, but that is not what is said. It left me wondering.
 
Your assembly technique is the same as I have always done for nearly 50 years.
My bench has a hole in it and I stand the case on it's face as soon as the cluster is laying in there, with the input dropped into the hole. Then I drop the assembled rear into place steering the nose into the input rollers . Then I rotate the tail housing about 180* from normal to expose the cluster pin hole. Next I pull the cluster into position and drop the pin in. Finally, I rotate the tail back to normal, and install the bolts. Yeah you have to be careful to not tear the gasket, which I lightly grease to the the case.
As for the washers and rollers, I use wheel-bearing grease to hold everything in position, no arbor.
I've built hundreds like that, possibly thousands.
 
I know what powershifting is. I am not familiar with what is meant by 'no lift foot to the floor' powershifting. I guess he could have meant that you don't lift the gas pedal foot, and you slam the clutch pedal to the floor, but that is not what is said. It left me wondering.
Yeah gas pedal to the floor, engine almost on the rev limiter, quick small stab on the clutch,as the engine gets into the limiter. Clutch only stabbed part way, just enough so the gears can slow down when the sliders are engaged.This keeps the air ripping into the engine, and with a 7000 rpm shift the Rs fall to .73 or to 5100, so the engine is practically unaware that a shift has actually occurred. On a streeter, the tires don't even have time to stop spinning.
This can also be done with the street slick-shift modification, which has the benefit of zero concentration required around town, just drive it like normal, cuz all the brass are still in there.
 
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Thanks for sharing! I have a few questions also. One picture shows a modified? brass ring, are they used in the assembly? Could you post the sliders? Did Liberty describe the modifications to you or are they on their web page? What case are you using? The reason I ask the last question is I was thinking about having an early OD case bushed front and rear on the countershaft supports. Thanks for your time.

The brass ring is modified synchro ring used in the 1-2 slider to retain the shift keys. I do not have any pictures of the sliders. Libertys website does not give much detail about specific models of transmissions. It's best to call them. The case I used is a 307 front bearing case with a June 1970 casting date.
 
Thanks for sharing! I have acquired a trans with supposed Liberty modifications.
 
If you don’t mind sharing, about how much money do you have in the faceplating including shipping and all required parts/gaskets?
I have a spare trans under the bench that needs a freshening up. I’d be interested to know how much this process would add to the cost of a basic rebuild (new brass/bearings).
 
If you don’t mind sharing, about how much money do you have in the faceplating including shipping and all required parts/gaskets?
Shipping to Libertys, shotpeen,crack check,
faceplating, cryo treatment, thermal stabilization, forks, and rebuild kit was about $1200, which is about the same price as a rebuilt transmission from Brewers or Passon.
 
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I see! It's just like a jap bike transmission now! With a light flywheel that will shift as good as your shifter will let it!
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Can you get a ratchet shifter for the left side on the floor, and move the clutch to the driver door inner panel?
 
I used to shift my Honda AN600 like that. It was a 2cyl thumper bike motor in a car with a stick shift. Rap it to 4500, put light pressure on the shifter toward the next gear and lighten up on the gas for an instant. The shifter would just fall into the next gear. You could also jam it at 6500 with just a brush of the clutch pedal. I could upshift all day with no clutch. First had no synchro so you had to be stopped. looked exactly like this one, color-rims and all. I'd buy another in a heartbeat and put a Hayabusa in it.
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Thanks for all the pictures. I see how it works now with the sliders. Thank goodness Liberty is still helping us old school folks with the 833.
 
I faceplated my Ford Toploader using Liberty TKO parts, also faceplated 3rd gear in a Saginaw using Liberty TKO faceplate parts as well. I have a lathe so machining the gears for adding the Liberty dog rings was no problem, then used a MIG to weld the rings to the gears. Last time I bought TKO dog rings from Liberty they were $65/ea.

Liberty's TKO faceplate slider was a direct replacement for my Toploader's 3/4 slider. The design is very similar to the 833's 3/4 slider, the dog toothed Liberty TKO sliders were $100/ea.

Here's a pic of the Liberty TKO faceplate style dog ring and slider...

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Three dog rings and two 3/4 faceplate sliders cost me a little over $400 including shipping.

The Toploader's 1/2 slider is similar to the 833 1/2 slider in that it also has external gear teeth that are used for reverse. I chose to modify my stock Toploader 1/2 slider by cutting apart one of Liberty's 3/4 sliders, then narrowing the stock 1/2 slider's outer gear teeth so that I could MIG on a ring of Liberty dog teeth. I retained the stock synchro on 1st gear, as it's for a street/strip car.

Here's a pic of the stock Toploader 1/2 slider with one piece of the cut apart Liberty slider resting on top...

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Here's a pic of the same slider after narrowing the gear teeth to make room for the weld, MIG welding the ring to the slider, and then machining the inner teeth from the ring...

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Here's a pic of the assembled Toploader with synchro'd 1st gear, faceplated 2/3/4...

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I should add that when Liberty faceplates a TKO or Toploader the slider has to move quite a distance between the gears. Below is a pic of a Toploader modified by Liberty, notice how far the slider has to travel between the 3rd and 4th gears compared to mine pictured above...

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Here's a pic of the Saginaw gearset I did with the faceplated 3rd gear using those same TKO faceplate parts...

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This Saginaw was originally for the 1/8mi with 1st gear synchro'd, 2nd and 3rd gears had brass teeth removed and every other engagement tooth also removed to widen the engagement window. 4th gear still had a stock synchro. That worked ok, but I had a problem with 3rd gear burring over about once a month and causing missed 3rd gears. Installing the faceplate parts on 3rd eliminated that problem. Didn't bother to modify 4th as the car was still in 3rd at the end of an 1/8mi pass.

Grant
 
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Great thread, how is first set up? Any good pics? I have a box that has an un-synro’d first gear and a proshifted second, faceplates 3/4. Never used this one so I was gonna pull it down and have second FP and see if I could syncro first.

I had another one set up like this that I eventually broke, downshifting 3rd was easy but that proshifted second and Unsycronized first was a bear.

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second gear went bye bye with my 500 inch hemi.
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