Titanium connecting rods for sbm 416

-
To be blunt..........it's cost/benefit......$5000.00 for titanium rods will net you just about zero in return.

We all want to build engines with longevity to them, smart spending can make that happen, $5000.00 titanium rods aren't part of that equation.

In the end, it's your money, spend it how ever you wish; please let us know how it works out.
 
I think the info your reading has been misconstrued and exaggerated.

The use of titanium rods would be for the search of the ultimate ultra extreme top level HP excerise in a racing theater.
Otherwise, there isn't a real sane excuse for there use.

I don't know how you come to the theory/ knowledge of the steel connecting rod as a problem for piston longevity. The roll it plays is in is the length. Other than that, it just connects the slug to the crank. It's material composition is mostly irrelevant. As long as it meets the strength needs of the engine and is of the desired length.
While lighter is better, going to this extreme is IMO simply nuts.

As mentioned above earlier, some very powerful engines have been and are still being done with steel con/rods. There really isn't a problem with them at all.

The shorter slug due to the stroke added which causes a shorter piston overall is the concern. Some builders have noted and voiced concern over a slug getting to thin and the idea of it not being very stable in big stroke engines. We here had a fella not like that idea of a 4.250 stroke in the small block but it is being done. (How well it works out for longevity is an unknown to me.)

You can shorten the rod for the ability to make a taller piston if you wanted to.


On how an engine "Rev's" & how fast it will rev up as well as how long (time and rpm wise) it will rev, is, without a doubt a combination of factors. Your light weight approach on the rods has merit but when it comes to dollars and cents, as well as sense on a street driven engine, it boils down to a waste of money due to the extremely low return.
It's like buying a 5lbs. bag of sugar to sweeten your morning coffee and then throwing the rest of it out into the garbage when your done drinking the cup.

The other factors of a quick reving engine are in the camshaft used WITH the proper springs. The ability the engine has to breath and breath deeply.
Rear gear and tire size for quickly getting into high rpm area.

Before (fruitlessly) spending that amount of money on extreme racing con/rods, up the anti of the engine with superior heads. For the price in total, a set of Edelbrock Victor heads will bring you not just a lot but WAY further in HP goals, breath ability and top line rpm limits.

A lot of longevity is also in how an engine is treated and driven. Expensive parts or cheap parts, hound on the drivetrain and it will give up on you. The use of a light weight (or super light) crank is fine. Consult a pro engine shop on which one is best for your goals.

The stroker engine has the ability to rev like if not quicker than a OE 340 can without a doubt or issue while still making use of stock con/rods.
 
I think the info your reading has been misconstrued and exaggerated.

The use of titanium rods would be for the search of the ultimate ultra extreme top level HP excerise in a racing theater.
Otherwise, there isn't a real sane excuse for there use.

I don't know how you come to the theory/ knowledge of the steel connecting rod as a problem for piston longevity. The roll it plays is in is the length. Other than that, it just connects the slug to the crank. It's material composition is mostly irrelevant. As long as it meets the strength needs of the engine and is of the desired length.
While lighter is better, going to this extreme is IMO simply nuts.

As mentioned above earlier, some very powerful engines have been and are still being done with steel con/rods. There really isn't a problem with them at all.

The shorter slug due to the stroke added which causes a shorter piston overall is the concern. Some builders have noted and voiced concern over a slug getting to thin and the idea of it not being very stable in big stroke engines. We here had a fella not like that idea of a 4.250 stroke in the small block but it is being done. (How well it works out for longevity is an unknown to me.)

You can shorten the rod for the ability to make a taller piston if you wanted to.


On how an engine "Rev's" & how fast it will rev up as well as how long (time and rpm wise) it will rev, is, without a doubt a combination of factors. Your light weight approach on the rods has merit but when it comes to dollars and cents, as well as sense on a street driven engine, it boils down to a waste of money due to the extremely low return.
It's like buying a 5lbs. bag of sugar to sweeten your morning coffee and then throwing the rest of it out into the garbage when your done drinking the cup.

The other factors of a quick reving engine are in the camshaft used WITH the proper springs. The ability the engine has to breath and breath deeply.
Rear gear and tire size for quickly getting into high rpm area.

Before (fruitlessly) spending that amount of money on extreme racing con/rods, up the anti of the engine with superior heads. For the price in total, a set of Edelbrock Victor heads will bring you not just a lot but WAY further in HP goals, breath ability and top line rpm limits.

A lot of longevity is also in how an engine is treated and driven. Expensive parts or cheap parts, hound on the drivetrain and it will give up on you. The use of a light weight (or super light) crank is fine. Consult a pro engine shop on which one is best for your goals.

The stroker engine has the ability to rev like if not quicker than a OE 340 can without a doubt or issue while still making use of stock con/rods.
Thank you for your insight rumblefish. What you say does make sense. I plan on going to a reputable engine builder locally here and see what they think I should do. I just wanted to get some ideas before I headed there. Only experience I have with modified engines is the bbf I had in my old mud truck. This is a little different build with a stroker sbm.
 
Thank you for your insight rumblefish. What you say does make sense. I plan on going to a reputable engine builder locally here and see what they think I should do. I just wanted to get some ideas before I headed there. Only experience I have with modified engines is the bbf I had in my old mud truck. This is a little different build with a stroker sbm.


I'm going to be blunt, because it's all I know how to do.

If you want to spin the guts out of a small block Chrysler, and you are looking at Ti rods, you have no business doing it. If it was easy, everyone would be able to do it.

I have done it. The stack of parts it took to get it right would buy you a house.
Before you even consider rods, you better spend all your money on Ti valves, the best, strongest, lightest retainers and locks you can buy, and that ain't titanium.

What are you doing for rockers? How are you going to oil the pushrods and adjusters?

What are you going to do for lifters?

What block do you have? Better not be a pcar block or you'll be LUCKY if you don't lose power over 7500. Ask me how I know.

You should really have roller cam bearings. With the spring loads you'll need, it's damn near impossible to keep the cam off the bearings.

And then there is the oil timing issue. Unless you have a late model race block, you MUST fix the oil timing, or you will be throwing rods out of the block so fast, you'll need to stock several engines worth of parts just to keep up with everything you junk.

If your heads and induction can't keep up, you'll have to run so much cam, the car will be a pig in the gear change. Ask me how I know.

I know everyone talks about turing 8000 plus. I have never met anyone with dyno numbers to prove they did it. I have. I still have the first set of heads I personally did that made power over 8000. It took everything I had, a tunnel ram and a tig welder to get it done.

Just my .02. You are better off keeping the RPM under 7200. I didn't see what you think spinning th guts out of one is, but the learning curve is zero. You'll get no second chances. One small error is a catastrophic disaster. Ask me how I know.
 
I'm going to be blunt, because it's all I know how to do.

If you want to spin the guts out of a small block Chrysler, and you are looking at Ti rods, you have no business doing it. If it was easy, everyone would be able to do it.

I have done it. The stack of parts it took to get it right would buy you a house.
Before you even consider rods, you better spend all your money on Ti valves, the best, strongest, lightest retainers and locks you can buy, and that ain't titanium.

What are you doing for rockers? How are you going to oil the pushrods and adjusters?

What are you going to do for lifters?

What block do you have? Better not be a pcar block or you'll be LUCKY if you don't lose power over 7500. Ask me how I know.

You should really have roller cam bearings. With the spring loads you'll need, it's damn near impossible to keep the cam off the bearings.

And then there is the oil timing issue. Unless you have a late model race block, you MUST fix the oil timing, or you will be throwing rods out of the block so fast, you'll need to stock several engines worth of parts just to keep up with everything you junk.

If your heads and induction can't keep up, you'll have to run so much cam, the car will be a pig in the gear change. Ask me how I know.

I know everyone talks about turing 8000 plus. I have never met anyone with dyno numbers to prove they did it. I have. I still have the first set of heads I personally did that made power over 8000. It took everything I had, a tunnel ram and a tig welder to get it done.

Just my .02. You are better off keeping the RPM under 7200. I didn't see what you think spinning th guts out of one is, but the learning curve is zero. You'll get no second chances. One small error is a catastrophic disaster. Ask me how I know.
I stopped at the engine builders today and he thinks I should be able to do what I want with solid lifter cam, no need for a roller. He is building 3 engines right now comparable to what I told him what I was looking for. He is going to give me a parts list and dyno numbers from them and see if it feasible for my build. Seems like people get pretty worked up over the idea of Ti connecting rods for a street application. Didn't mean to upset anyone. Just looking for ideas for my build for my gts!
 
I stopped at the engine builders today and he thinks I should be able to do what I want with solid lifter cam, no need for a roller. He is building 3 engines right now comparable to what I told him what I was looking for. He is going to give me a parts list and dyno numbers from them and see if it feasible for my build. Seems like people get pretty worked up over the idea of Ti connecting rods for a street application. Didn't mean to upset anyone. Just looking for ideas for my build for my gts!


I'm not worked up. Just trying to help someone from spending a bunch of money they don't need to. I've use Ti rods. They are a giant PITA. Ti doesn't like to rub against itself. It's not real happy rubbing anything. Ti isn't fun to machine either. While lighter than steel and stronger than aluminum, Ti has its own personality. I know Bill Miller claims you can use his aluminum rods on the street for tens of thousands of miles, trouble free. I've only used aluminum rods in my drag stuff. I'm old enough now I don't want to spin the guts out of it (unless you think 7200 spinning it up...I don't) so I'm just running steel rods.

Again, I haven't seen what heads, intake and block you are using. I'm still a big fan of SFT cams, but to get one to make power over 8000 is asking a bunch from it.
 
I'm not worked up. Just trying to help someone from spending a bunch of money they don't need to. I've use Ti rods. They are a giant PITA. Ti doesn't like to rub against itself. It's not real happy rubbing anything. Ti isn't fun to machine either. While lighter than steel and stronger than aluminum, Ti has its own personality. I know Bill Miller claims you can use his aluminum rods on the street for tens of thousands of miles, trouble free. I've only used aluminum rods in my drag stuff. I'm old enough now I don't want to spin the guts out of it (unless you think 7200 spinning it up...I don't) so I'm just running steel rods.

Again, I haven't seen what heads, intake and block you are using. I'm still a big fan of SFT cams, but to get one to make power over 8000 is asking a bunch from it.
I appreciate everyones input. I never built a stroker sbm before. I don't want to spin much above 6500. I know steel rods a perfectly suitable for my build. I was looking for input on the Ti rods is all. Engine builder suggested eddys. My goal is little above 500hp for a street car or track once in awhile. I will be running a stock 1967 340 block. What would be suggested for a decent head?
 
I appreciate everyones input. I never built a stroker sbm before. I don't want to spin much above 6500. I know steel rods a perfectly suitable for my build. I was looking for input on the Ti rods is all. Engine builder suggested eddys. My goal is little above 500hp for a street car or track once in awhile. I will be running a stock 1967 340 block. What would be suggested for a decent head?


Well hell, at that RPM you'll be pooping in tall cotton. If you can afford it, find some W-2 heads. If you can't, there are some pretty good heads coming from Bruce Toth that will be fine.

For what you are doing, steel rods and a solid flat tappet cam will be golden.
 
Ok, so now we know stock block, 6500rpm, 500ish hp, and 10-15yr reliability.

At 6500 you should be making a lot more than 500hp. So maybe step down to a 3.79 crank. You'll still easily hit 500hp well before 6500 and it should live quite a bit longer than a 4" crank. You'll have a more stable piston package, less side loading on the block, and lower piston speeds.

Knowing the parameters now I would be much more concerned with proper machining than exotic parts.
 
besides the price are they worth it for a street car? I have read that the 416 is rough on pistons because of the extra weight from being stroked. Is the Scat super light cranks any good also? My goal is titanium rods, super light crank, ported X heads, and a streetable solid roller cam for 500hp. Sound feasible?


I was told it was the rod ratio that is brutal on the pistons, not their weight.

Spend the money on EFI, valvetrain and heads, especially if this is not a roller motor already.
 
410 ci 4" cast scat crank. Icon dished pistons, scat h beam rods. 55,000 miles and over 700 runs on it over 9 years. Pistons showed minimal wear and the bores were round with minimal taper. Spun it to 6300 rpm all the time. Just changed bearings and rings went to icon flat top piston for more compression. Forged crank a good h beam rod and it will live forever on the street...... Atleast until you decide you want to go quicker. Put the money in the heads. Sell the x's
 
(1). Lighter reciprocating weight. From some of the ready I've done on the 416's is that the pistons wear out quicker from the heavier connecting rods. The pistons are short so it is harder on them.
(2). Just a figure of speech. I only want to build the engine once and not have to rebuild it after a couple years. I would like it to last 10-15 yrs.
There are many strokers of various cubic inches that have been raced beat on and run factory or aftermarket normal priced rods and haven't blown up!! You are simply overthinking this build. Spend the money where it really counts like other members say. Heads! Heads! And then Heads!
 
Thread over two years old. Is this engine built yet?
 
My mate runs a Demon here with a mild 416, hyd. cam, iron heads, pump gas CR, 750DP, AG intake, makes around 406fwhp@5800 in street trim (3300lbs) with full exhaust (on track hp not dyno). Add some TF190 heads and an sft cam in the upper 500's lift and 500hp would be a breeze and it would probably make max hp@around 6200rpm.
 
-
Back
Top