Yes I've already said that as far as pbr's thread goes.. by the time a professional has done that much work which means someone has done it and has the money to make a mistake and get it fixed and learn how to do it right... I believe these are for the budget-minded person or for the professional who can turn them into something with their on labor.. I 100% agree that "IF" I would have needed this much out of them I would have waited till promaxx had a sale and got them at the same price as going through having them played with... But how do we know until someone did it... As PBR said it's getting to be a lost art but there's a reason... I understand how it running and I love to do things as I've said I did most of the porting on my heads as well.. all it taught me was I don't want to do that again LOL what a mess...