A good read on oil

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Typical Harley owners are not cheap when it comes to their bikes.
Good read for sure.
Thanks for sharing.
 
That was a good read.

I tried to google that 1977 SAE paper on cam wear but I can't find it. They knew in 1977 what was coming.
 
motorpirate said:
Looks like Castrol 20W50 for the win, highest # of P, Zn, and B...
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There is more to a good oil than the highest amount of phosphorus, zinc and boron.

Once you have more of the EP additives to control dry film lubrication, any more kills horsepower and takes up volume on the oil that could be used to upgrade other areas of lubrication, cleaning, cooling and such.
 
yellow rose said:
There is more to a good oil than the highest amount of phosphorus, zinc and boron.

Once you have more of the EP additives to control dry film lubrication, any more kills horsepower and takes up volume on the oil that could be used to upgrade other areas of lubrication, cleaning, cooling and such.
Click to expand...
Probably over my head a little then...
I do know this though, when my shop started getting into law enforcement fleet accounts the Crown Vic's were having a LOT of main bearing thrust issues on the then new 5W30 oil.
I mean like converter bolts hitting the back of the block in drive!!
Most got mains under warranty by the local Ford dealers who was using the 5W30 as it was what ford called for. They were using Valvoline.
We at the time were using Castrol. We put 10W40 in cars of any Department that would let us ( some had warranty concerns) and Castrol 5W30 in those that insisted.
We had NO main bearing failures on any car that had the Castrol, and over a few years took on most of the local agency's as word in the industry was cars we serviced didn't have engine falures like the ones being serviced at the local dealers and county garages.
So, I kind of have a soft spot for Castrol I guess...
 
motorpirate said:
Probably over my head a little then...
I do know this though, when my shop started getting into law enforcement fleet accounts the Crown Vic's were having a LOT of main bearing thrust issues on the then new 5W30 oil.
I mean like converter bolts hitting the back of the block in drive!!
Most got mains under warranty by the local Ford dealers who was using the 5W30 as it was what ford called for. They were using Valvoline.
We at the time were using Castrol. We put 10W40 in cars of any Department that would let us ( some had warranty concerns) and Castrol 5W30 in those that insisted.
We had NO main bearing failures on any car that had the Castrol, and over a few years took on most of the local agency's as word in the industry was cars we serviced didn't have engine falures like the ones being serviced at the local dealers and county garages.
So, I kind of have a soft spot for Castrol I guess...
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10/40 was it castrol or valvoline?
 
QuickDart360 said:
10/40 was it castrol or valvoline?
Click to expand...
Castrol. we found the Valvoline would thin out if the car idled for a few hours ( like working an accident or doing radar ETC).
Then, if the officer got another high priority call, hopped in, hit the lights and stomped it the thin oil couldn't protect the thrust bearing.
A few tours of that and " what is that clicking sound when I put it in drive??"
First one we found was intermittent. So we put the car on the lift running in gear with the Ebrake on. After about 45 min I saw the harmonic balancer move forward about 3/8 of an inch and the noise started.
 
motorpirate said:
Castrol. we found the Valvoline would thin out if the car idled for a few hours ( like working an accident or doing radar ETC).
Then, if the officer got another high priority call, hopped in, hit the lights and stomped it the thin oil couldn't protect the thrust bearing.
A few tours of that and " what is that clicking sound when I put it in drive??"
First one we found was intermittent. So we put the car on the lift running in gear with the Ebrake on. After about 45 min I saw the harmonic balancer move forward about 3/8 of an inch and the noise started.
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Is 10/40 Castrol still a good choice now? If so will it have decent zinc for flat cam in a 360 mopar?
 
QuickDart360 said:
Is 10/40 Castrol still a good choice now? If so will it have decent zinc for flat cam in a 360 mopar?
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Short answer: maybe. Even though SN rated oils heavier than 10W-40 may have levels of ZDDP higher than 800 ppm, most do not. Many oils are out there that will fit your needs, but only a few are reasonably priced and readily available. Rotella T6 5W-40 is a full synthetic made primarily for diesel engines, but has the good old school anti wear package. Virtually all diesel oils will work fine, but this one works very well, and is cheap at Walmart. Quaker State High Mileage synthetic blend in 10W-40 only still has the higher amounts of ZDDP. Also cheap in 5 quart jugs at Walmart. Valvoline VR1 is basically their conventional oil with a bunch extra ZDDP added in. Availability is good, if not Walmart, then NAPA or other parts stores. All of these are available on Amazon.
There are many more that will fit your criteria. But they are harder to find, or more expensive, often both. Lucas, Driven, PennGrade, Amsoil, Redline, Royal Purple and more I'm sure.
 
motorpirate said:
Probably over my head a little then...
I do know this though, when my shop started getting into law enforcement fleet accounts the Crown Vic's were having a LOT of main bearing thrust issues on the then new 5W30 oil.
I mean like converter bolts hitting the back of the block in drive!!
Most got mains under warranty by the local Ford dealers who was using the 5W30 as it was what ford called for. They were using Valvoline.
We at the time were using Castrol. We put 10W40 in cars of any Department that would let us ( some had warranty concerns) and Castrol 5W30 in those that insisted.
We had NO main bearing failures on any car that had the Castrol, and over a few years took on most of the local agency's as word in the industry was cars we serviced didn't have engine falures like the ones being serviced at the local dealers and county garages.
So, I kind of have a soft spot for Castrol I guess...
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I've seen many cases like this.

One issue is the grade into which an oil falls is rather wide. You can test 3 oils and one will be built in the low end of the grade, one might be in the middle and the last one on the high side of the grade.

Also, I forget the exact testing procedure, but the oil being tested needs to be "in grade" for a certain number of tests. So let's say out of ten tests on any particular oil, if that oil passed the grade test 5 times out of 10 it's considered in grade.

If an oil is built on the low side of its grade, and it starts getting some load on it, like at the thrust or exhaust valves or whatever, it will get hot enough that it falls out of grade. And then the oil can't get rid of the heat that's pushing it out of grade, so the parts get hotter and the cycle continues.

It's almost impossible to get all the information from the oil manufacturers. The only real way to know if an oil is capable is to test it. And that costs big $$$$$. And it takes time.

Or, you learn the way you did, which isn't cheap either.
 
yellow rose said:
I've seen many cases like this.

One issue is the grade into which an oil falls is rather wide. You can test 3 oils and one will be built in the low end of the grade, one might be in the middle and the last one on the high side of the grade.

Also, I forget the exact testing procedure, but the oil being tested needs to be "in grade" for a certain number of tests. So let's say out of ten tests on any particular oil, if that oil passed the grade test 5 times out of 10 it's considered in grade.

If an oil is built on the low side of its grade, and it starts getting some load on it, like at the thrust or exhaust valves or whatever, it will get hot enough that it falls out of grade. And then the oil can't get rid of the heat that's pushing it out of grade, so the parts get hotter and the cycle continues.

It's almost impossible to get all the information from the oil manufacturers. The only real way to know if an oil is capable is to test it. And that costs big $$$$$. And it takes time.

Or, you learn the way you did, which isn't cheap either.
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I've used Royal Purple XPR 10 40 for years on my 34O , never had a problem, of course only 35,000 km on it
 
what is the thinking on oil for roller cams ? is a high zinc oil still a good idea or does it make no diffrerence ?I'm using valvoline synthetic VR-1 10W-30 this year for the first time because Hughes says to use 10-30 with the roller lifters
 
Nat said:
what is the thinking on oil for roller cams ? is a high zinc oil still a good idea or does it make no diffrerence ?I'm using valvoline synthetic VR-1 10W-30 this year for the first time because Hughes says to use 10-30 with the roller lifters
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It's not necessary to use high ZDDP oil with a roller cam. It's an anti-wear additive, so it doesn't hurt. A SN+, GF-5 rated 10W-30, which is limited to 800 ppm of zinc and phosphorus, will do fine. The good news is it will be much easier to find an oil suitable for your engine.
How do you like your Hughes lifters?
 
Nat said:
what is the thinking on oil for roller cams ? is a high zinc oil still a good idea or does it make no diffrerence ?I'm using valvoline synthetic VR-1 10W-30 this year for the first time because Hughes says to use 10-30 with the roller lifters
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You should run the best oil you can afford, and then some. The cam isn't the only thing that needs dry film lubrication.
 
S'cuder said:
It's not necessary to use high ZDDP oil with a roller cam. It's an anti-wear additive, so it doesn't hurt. A SN+, GF-5 rated 10W-30, which is limited to 800 ppm of zinc and phosphorus, will do fine. The good news is it will be much easier to find an oil suitable for your engine.
How do you like your Hughes lifters?[/QUOT
So far the lifters are fine , no noise in the morning and they take a 7,000 rpm blast with no clacking like the old standard lifters . the old lifters made noise until warmed up changed them times always the same got to say the hughes lifters are great so far , a bit expensive but worth it as they drop right in no work needed I'm using the cryo treated offset rockers as well no complaints
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CudaFactHackJob said:
How do i fit a 518 into my sportster?
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I think it can be done.
banner-578729f68f510.jpg
 
yellow rose said:
You should run the best oil you can afford, and then some. The cam isn't the only thing that needs dry film lubrication.
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I thought I already replied to you here. I must have missed the post button.
A good oil with anti-wear additive is important, but since the OP is in The Netherlands, he has good choices for European oils. If the Valvoline is hard to find, a high SAPS oil, like a BMW LL-01 spec oil will do very well, and is likely widely available. A 10W-30 might not be easy to find, but 5W-30 & 0W-30 should be, and will do well.
 
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