I say the bulkhead connectors are burned off. Kkm
I grounded coil positive to block?
- Thread starter NHscamp
- Start date
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Does the winner get a roll of toilet paper?
Demonic
Well-Known Member
I'm with Kim. I can't remember how many parts cars i had back in the 80's, 90's with the burned hole on the bulkhead plastic at the fusible link.
NHscamp
Go big or go home!
NHscamp
Go big or go home!
NHscamp
Go big or go home!
Well I finally had time to get back at it. I went through the steps in your earlier post and found I do have power with the switch on out the yellow wire on the relay. Went back as I have already removed and bypass the fusible link pull the bulkhead connector apart little corroded but seem to be get in good shape. Cleaned it up and put it back together.I do have power on the other side of it as well as out the fuses.I guess my next step is to pull the dashboard and check the meter gauge?
Yellow hot? When you turn the key forward to start position?
What was the voltage at the large black wire attached to the stud?
What was it after you turned on the headlights?
Do not turn the key on or to start for those initial tests.
"I have already removed and bypass the fusible link"
That eliminated the only little bit of protection against battery shorting and destroying something.
Fusible Links in Charging Systems with Ammeter
"I do have power on the other side of it as well as out the fuses.I guess my next step is to pull the dashboard and check the meter gauge?"
We don't know if you have power on the inside. You have potential power. The way to test for whether there is power was by turning on the headlights. With the markers, dash and headlights on there will be 10-15 amps flowing thorugh the ammeter from the battery. You will see it on the ammeter. You will see a voltage on at the alternator stud that may be different than the votlage on the battery positive terminal. Then we'll have a better idea if there is an issue with power before the key switch.
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Yes its possible.
With an MSD wired in, power to the coil will come from the MSD box. The MSD box gets its power in from wherever the heavy red cable is connected.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
OK where do you and don't you have power? Do the headlights work? Do you have power at the alternator big black wire with the light switch on? (This is to put load on the circuit)
Here's the thing to keep in mind............when you are dealing with poor connections especially in large wiring, a connection is not always "always bad" or "always good". Your meter or test light does not draw much current. There can be enough power in a circuit to show on the meter, say, at the fuse panel. But when you pull the light switch, maybe it goes out. This of course shows the load now "kills" the power through the bad connection.
This could easily still be in the bulkhead. You basically have THREE connections at any one bulkead terminal.........1, the connection between the engine bay side wire and the terminal, 2, the connection between the two terminals themselves, and 3, the connection between the interior side wire and the terminal.
I have to ask... ( my sister had my dad leave work to help her out one day because of this) is the trans in Park or Neutral? it will not crank if not.
have you done anything to the trans linkage before this happened?
DO YOU HAVE A WIRING DIAGRAM? download one at mymopar.com OR beter yet buy one from classiccarwiring.com. when you started posting I pulled the trigger and bought one. I have used it several times in the past week alone just for your issue.
I don't remember but I thought you said you did not have cranking of the engine? If you have power at the yellow wire ("I" terminal) ON the starter relay you should be able to crank it UNLESS neutral safety switch (NSS) is the issue. before you pull the dash apart I would investigate that.
one of the wires on the starter relay goes to the NSS then to ground (small brown wire in 67 dart, other years might be different? key interlock? etc.)
"G" is the terminal that should go to the NSS. with trans in park or if manual, in neutral, check voltage from battery + to terminal "G" WITH all the wiring in the car put back on. you should get 12 V. If you don't start looking into the NSS or the wires along the way.
Do your headlights work now?
have you done anything to the trans linkage before this happened?
DO YOU HAVE A WIRING DIAGRAM? download one at mymopar.com OR beter yet buy one from classiccarwiring.com. when you started posting I pulled the trigger and bought one. I have used it several times in the past week alone just for your issue.
I don't remember but I thought you said you did not have cranking of the engine? If you have power at the yellow wire ("I" terminal) ON the starter relay you should be able to crank it UNLESS neutral safety switch (NSS) is the issue. before you pull the dash apart I would investigate that.
one of the wires on the starter relay goes to the NSS then to ground (small brown wire in 67 dart, other years might be different? key interlock? etc.)
"G" is the terminal that should go to the NSS. with trans in park or if manual, in neutral, check voltage from battery + to terminal "G" WITH all the wiring in the car put back on. you should get 12 V. If you don't start looking into the NSS or the wires along the way.
Do your headlights work now?
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Strike one!
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
^^Just for electrical correctness, the "G" and "I" terminals can have the wires reverse in some years and they work fine, electrically. For some years, the connectors are molded "keyed" so that they only go on one way. But electrically does not matter.
Notice the brown colored terminal in the second pic. That is a sign that the terminal overheated at one time. Squeeze it with a pair of needle nose pliers and pull it out from the backside. Clean it - and solder if necessary.
NHscamp
Go big or go home!
Well by George took quite some time chasing it but I got it! Pull the bulkhead connector apart again cleaned it up really well,Replace the starter relay and the neutral safety switch in the transmission guess that short knocked out quite a bit.I still think the fusible link was part of the issue as well Probably the last to go. Runs excellent. Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me I appreciate it! Out of all of this I do have two questions
Should I install a new fuse or fusible link?
Should I illuminate the ballast resistor in electronics box?
In One of the pictures I posted earlier in this thread showed the MSD small red wire going to a cluster of wires does this seem right? Thank you
So the starter relay was it or the neutral safety switch?
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
You may not be done. You can buy replacement terminals for the connectors, known loosely as "Parckard 56" You need to be sure and get the right flavor
Once you think you get everything together and correct, you need to run some voltage drop tests to be sure the VR is not overcharging the battery. What I mean is, that voltage drop TO the VR will cause the VR to boost voltage and cause a battery over-voltage problem
To check this, with everything connected, having been running, warmed, and with battery "up" to normal, Run two tests
1...With key in "run" stab one meter probe into the battery POS post, and connect the other as close as you can get to the VR ignition terminal. This is likely where the ballast has been bypassed. You should read a VERY low value and the lower the better. Do not disconnect anything to read this. You want a load on the circuit. Anything more than say, .3V you need to find out why
2...Ground circuit........With engine runnning to simulate low-to medium cruise RPM, do this first with all accessories off, and again, with heater, lights, etc, on. Stab one probe into the battery NEG post, and the other into the VR mounting flange. As before, you are hoping for a very low reading, zero would be perfect
The MAD article I mentioned earlier deals with these issues.
Where troubles fall in the original wiring, in no particular order:
Bulkead connector, as you are finding out.
Problems with damage and looseness and or corrosion at the ammeter, and bad wire end terminals at the ammeter
Broken welded splice in the black ammeter circuit. This is rare but has happened. I found my first failed one in about 1971 in a friend's 69 RR in the parking lot of his apartment. had the dash and harness all over the front seat. He thought I was nuts, and I did too for awhile. Over the years, I've been privy to maybe 8-12 of these failures
Bad connections and failure in the fuse link
On newer cars, there is a white colored engine harness connector that fails
All this is made worse by great big alternator or large power hogging accessories, like stereos and electric pumps and fans
Once you think you get everything together and correct, you need to run some voltage drop tests to be sure the VR is not overcharging the battery. What I mean is, that voltage drop TO the VR will cause the VR to boost voltage and cause a battery over-voltage problem
To check this, with everything connected, having been running, warmed, and with battery "up" to normal, Run two tests
1...With key in "run" stab one meter probe into the battery POS post, and connect the other as close as you can get to the VR ignition terminal. This is likely where the ballast has been bypassed. You should read a VERY low value and the lower the better. Do not disconnect anything to read this. You want a load on the circuit. Anything more than say, .3V you need to find out why
2...Ground circuit........With engine runnning to simulate low-to medium cruise RPM, do this first with all accessories off, and again, with heater, lights, etc, on. Stab one probe into the battery NEG post, and the other into the VR mounting flange. As before, you are hoping for a very low reading, zero would be perfect
The MAD article I mentioned earlier deals with these issues.
Where troubles fall in the original wiring, in no particular order:
Bulkead connector, as you are finding out.
Problems with damage and looseness and or corrosion at the ammeter, and bad wire end terminals at the ammeter
Broken welded splice in the black ammeter circuit. This is rare but has happened. I found my first failed one in about 1971 in a friend's 69 RR in the parking lot of his apartment. had the dash and harness all over the front seat. He thought I was nuts, and I did too for awhile. Over the years, I've been privy to maybe 8-12 of these failures
Bad connections and failure in the fuse link
On newer cars, there is a white colored engine harness connector that fails
All this is made worse by great big alternator or large power hogging accessories, like stereos and electric pumps and fans
66 Valiant wagon
Well-Known Member
That red wire going into a bundle of wires you describe is the switched power to the MSD. If I'm following correctly.
And yes as was mentioned earlier I would reinstall that fusible link. Its the safety net, it burns so the rest won't.
And yes as was mentioned earlier I would reinstall that fusible link. Its the safety net, it burns so the rest won't.
Demonic
Well-Known Member
Most definitely.
Nah, I just carry a flashlight in the glovebox. I suppose you could adapt an ashtray light and mount it if you want something permanent.
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