On My challenger I went from pwr w/ the fast arm to manual24:1 with a fast arm, Its still a bunch of turns If i get a chance I'll count L to L . My cuda has a Flaming river 16:1 standard arm, it's a bit of a chore at low speeds with a 4sp but I like that better than the set-up in the challenger. I'd like to try a 20:1 box.