833 Rebuild - 2nd Gear Grinds Going Up and Bumps Out Decelerating

-
I’m using 90 wt gear oil in my A-833 and it grinds first to second until the oil warms up. So when you say after a trip around the block it shifts normally first to second, could just be the oil is too stiff.

Man is that good timing! I pulled it out cold today to make a parts run and it was grinding a little going from 1st to 2nd. I was thinking "what could I have missed in the rebuild to have a random grind like this!?" And it did smooth out after a couple signal lights.

More great info. Thanks!
 
You’ll have issues with a “dirty” neutral...meaning when you move the shift lever left to right it’s not “clean”...it starts snagging on the gates of the shifter.

Ease into it. As long as neutral is clean enough that you can shift it without a bunch of effort you’re golden.
I kept the shift rods exactly as they came off before the transmission rebuild. It ended up taking (one turn at a time) four turns out on 1st-2nd to not have 2nd pop out of gear when decelerating and five turns out on 3rd-4th to not have 3rd grind on down shift. And neutral is still clean.

Cool stuff! Not only did I fix my 4 speed (with $500 in new parts) I now know the how and why on synchro function and shift rod adjustment. Man, I love this stuff!!:D
 
You’ll have issues with a “dirty” neutral...meaning when you move the shift lever left to right it’s not “clean”...it starts snagging on the gates of the shifter.

Ease into it. As long as neutral is clean enough that you can shift it without a bunch of effort you’re golden.

Still in the learning mode. I've been easing into the shift linkage adjustments - one turn at a time. Thought I had it nailed until a little 100 mile shake down over Tiger Mountain yesterday. High RPM downshifts from 4th to 3rtd is grinding. Lower RPM 4th to 3rd shifts are fine.

Next newbie thought, :poke: Why not adjust the linkage until neutral acts "dirty" and then shorten the linkage back up so its just clean again instead of jacking the car up over and over, and easing into it a turn at a time?
 
A dirty (not talking about the neutral gate...but dirt) shifter can cause shifting/grinding stuff as you describe. It's happened to me. I thought a small bit of resistance in the shift plates wasn't a problem. I took the shifter apart anyway, cleaned and lubricated (teflon) every shim and plate. Wow. Huge difference. Shifts now like the shifter rods are connected to nothing but air.

Douching the shifter down from above with cleaner/lube didn't do the trick. It had to be taken apart to be cleaned effectively.

You have noted a number of different symptoms with the same shifter/rod adjustments. Why would that be? Maybe something else is an input to the equation...like a dirty shifter.
 
Next newbie thought, :poke: Why not adjust the linkage until neutral acts "dirty" and then shorten the linkage back up so its just clean again instead of jacking the car up over and over, and easing into it a turn at a time?

I may have just answered my own question today. I turned the shift linkage adjustment out one more turn, noticing the adjuster is about at the end of the threaded shift rod. I wondered too if I have the proper shift rods on the transmission, having come to the end of my threads. So many things have been wrong on this car!

So I shook the gear shift handle in neutral (engine off) and and say to myself, "Self - this neutral position feels great. No bumping against anything, swings left to right as good as it ever has. Time to put it back on the floor." Surprise! :eek: It now barely goes into reverse or first. I really have to work it to make it happen. The good news is I love jacking this car up and setting it on the wheel crib blocks. I love it so much, I'm doing it again around 6:30 tomorrow morning! And I may have learned what a dirty neutral is all about. :BangHead:

A dirty (not talking about the neutral gate...but dirt) shifter can cause shifting/grinding stuff as you describe. It's happened to me. I thought a small bit of resistance in the shift plates wasn't a problem. I took the shifter apart anyway, cleaned and lubricated (teflon) every shim and plate. Wow. Huge difference. Shifts now like the shifter rods are connected to nothing but air.

Douching the shifter down from above with cleaner/lube didn't do the trick. It had to be taken apart to be cleaned effectively.

You have noted a number of different symptoms with the same shifter/rod adjustments. Why would that be? Maybe something else is an input to the equation...like a dirty shifter.

You know, I did scrub a ton of crud out of the shifter, but I didn't take it apart. This has shifted "stiff" since I bought it. I was wondering just today if I was shifting old - outdated technology and maybe my '64 Impala SS from 50 years ago was the same, and I just didn't remember how smooth I thought it was.

I have to stop working on the car for three weeks, but will put a thorough cleaning and lube of the shifter on my 'top five list' for when I can get back into it. A smooth shifter has to be part of an enjoyable driver.
:steering:

Thanks!
 
You know, I did scrub a ton of crud out of the shifter, but I didn't take it apart. This has shifted "stiff" since I bought it. I was wondering just today if I was shifting old - outdated technology and maybe my '64 Impala SS from 50 years ago was the same, and I just didn't remember how smooth I thought it was.

I have to stop working on the car for three weeks, but will put a thorough cleaning and lube of the shifter on my 'top five list' for when I can get back into it. A smooth shifter has to be part of an enjoyable driver.
:steering:

Thanks!

If you are headed in the 'take it apart' direction, I'll add a couple of things to consider.

Keep all the plates/shims/springs straight. Take notes, KNOW which one goes where and faces which direction. The notes you take should be sufficient for someone else to put it together...someone that did NOT take it apart.

'Cleaning' the shims (bushing plates) will involve some scrubbing. Wiping them won't clean the sticky goo off. A Scotchbrite pad (probably not the green type..unless you are very careful with it) works. If you are leaving scrape/scour marks, you just screwed up.

I recall looking at this:

..and it was very helpful.

Note: He takes off/out each piece, turns it over, then places it on his shop towel. That doesn't fit my way of thinking...why turn the part UPside down from the way it came out? I'm bringing it up so you don't get caught unaware of that action. Take it apart one way, go looking at the video again and try to put it back together all backwards (says the video), you will have no end of headache getting it right.

If you see evidence of a locking agent on that nut...use heat to take it off. 'More' force is not useful in this situation.

IIRC, I used BelRay waterproof grease on mine. That isn't critical AFIK.

I said my shifter works free enough to seem to be hooked up to nothing. That is not an exaggeration for effect. It is loosey-goosey back and forth, perfectly clean gates, and the actual shifting is flawless.

See how much crap was in the video shifter after soaking for hours? That's the crap that doesn't come out when you just spray a cleaner into it.

It's a simple process..easy to do and you will get benefits that you should be happy with. Considering that, in my case, the shifter probably had never been taken apart and cleaned since '73, that is a lot of time to accumulate all sorts of grime that shouldn't be there.

Even if your grinding/shifting problems aren't solved...you still did yourself a favor.

Good luck!
 
Thanks again. This is great stuff. I'll report my success when I can dive back into it.
 
If you are headed in the 'take it apart' direction, I'll add a couple of things to consider.

Keep all the plates/shims/springs straight. Take notes, KNOW which one goes where and faces which direction. The notes you take should be sufficient for someone else to put it together...someone that did NOT take it apart.

'Cleaning' the shims (bushing plates) will involve some scrubbing. Wiping them won't clean the sticky goo off. A Scotchbrite pad (probably not the green type..unless you are very careful with it) works. If you are leaving scrape/scour marks, you just screwed up.

I recall looking at this:

..and it was very helpful.

Note: He takes off/out each piece, turns it over, then places it on his shop towel. That doesn't fit my way of thinking...why turn the part UPside down from the way it came out? I'm bringing it up so you don't get caught unaware of that action. Take it apart one way, go looking at the video again and try to put it back together all backwards (says the video), you will have no end of headache getting it right.

If you see evidence of a locking agent on that nut...use heat to take it off. 'More' force is not useful in this situation.

IIRC, I used BelRay waterproof grease on mine. That isn't critical AFIK.

I said my shifter works free enough to seem to be hooked up to nothing. That is not an exaggeration for effect. It is loosey-goosey back and forth, perfectly clean gates, and the actual shifting is flawless.

See how much crap was in the video shifter after soaking for hours? That's the crap that doesn't come out when you just spray a cleaner into it.

It's a simple process..easy to do and you will get benefits that you should be happy with. Considering that, in my case, the shifter probably had never been taken apart and cleaned since '73, that is a lot of time to accumulate all sorts of grime that shouldn't be there.

Even if your grinding/shifting problems aren't solved...you still did yourself a favor.

Good luck!


This was a GREAT TIP! It didn't take much more time than the video took for me to do the whole job. The transmission is out for a clutch and pilot bushing replacement, along with some clutch linkage work, but sitting on the floor the shifter moves the gears like butter sliding across a hot griddle. The education on how the shifter works was a bonus. Shifting effort will be even easier in the future, knowing the shifter's default position is 3 -4.

I'd recommend this be part of the routine to anyone pulling their 50 year old transmission. It was just too easy, and feels to good!

:thankyou:
 
Good to hear. You are welcome.

When you put it back together, keep the rod orientation in mind.

There is a lot of good information in this thread. Keeping the levers tight to the fork studs, knowing that slop in that connection is bad, it's all important.

Make sure you have the right rods and levers. There are good pics and explanations in Passon's book.

Check this illustration in post #23:
4 speed slipping out of second gear

If you still have trouble with what started this thread, it's highly unlikely to be any of this: rods/levers/shifter/assembly of 'em.

Good luck!
 
-
Back
Top