Dart 1969 - faster 1/4mile

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BaNaN85

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Hey

Me and my father got a Dart 69 440 together which we bracket race with.
Last winter we changed the old high compression ~12.5;1 452 heads to a pair of aluminum heads ~10.6;1. We gained a little in the top end and lost in the bottom.

more info
440 0.030 over
Alu heads 84cc, 2.14, 1.81, 210cc Intake
850cfm Holley carb
Solid lifter 650lift, 320dur
727, 8" ATI 5000 stall,TB, 31*12 rears
Dana 60 w spool, 4.88
Holley blue fuel pump.
Revs a lot crossing the 1/4mile line

Engine peaked at ~560hp at ~6300rpm in the bench.
With the 452 heads it was 537hp at 6100.
From 4800rpm the alu heads were better all the way.
Here's a clip from this summer

Best ET for us 10.52s

Now where thinking about what to upgrade next. The intake is an old Weiand 7512 intake and planned to replace it with something better. We already have a RPM 7193 intake from another engine we could try and use.

Looking at info from sites like this:
#4---Ported Intake Manifolds UPDATED 08/27/2007
And an old chart from mopar muscle mag test from 2002.
Intake manifold Hp / Tq Avg Hp/Tq
(1) Edelbrock Victor : 637@6400 / 593@4700 568/570
(2) Holley Street Dominator : 636@6200 / 598@5000 573/571
(3) Mopar M1 (single plane) : 629@6100 / 589@4900 564/567
(4) Edelbrock TM7 : 618@6200 / 602@4900 569/568
(5) Edelbrock Torker 2 : 627@6300 / 593@4900 565/563
(6) Edelbrock Torker (orig) : 605@5500 / 608@4700 565/566
(7) Edelbrock Performer RPM : 610@6200 / 590@4000 556/555
(8) Edelbrock CH4B : 607@6400 / 573@4000 545/544
(9) Weiand team G (Track R) : 597@6300 / 569@4900 540/534
(10) Weiand action plus : 597@6300 / 564@4000 537/536
(11) factory 70-71 iron : 575@6200 / 581@4000 534/535

The Victor and Holley Street D (Strip Dominator the same?) seems like the best options.
Torker II and Mopar M1 as 2nd best.
RPM is a little bit away but maybe some porting on a RPM intake could help?

I asume a 950 carb could help a little also.
A friend thought we should change the 4.88 gears to 4.56 or 4.10s to lower the revs and go faster.



What is this forums general idea about the Weiand 7512 intake? It seems like an really old intake dated back to 1974.
And what other tweeks do you think can get us closer to the 9?

Best regards
 
$500 for the intake with both plenums two 4 bbl and the single 4 bbl. $1000 for the other complete set up . The hat to bottom of the intake with NOS plates everything is polished. linkage included. They are dusty from setting .

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A Tunnel Ram with a pair of 750 carbs looks good to me. If you’re staying with a single four barrel use a TFS or a Victor intake. I think you would see benefit with a 4500 to 4150 adapter and a dominator on either the Victor or the TFS intake. What kind of aluminum heads do you have? And exactly what RPM is the car going to when it traps?
 
On my old bracket motor that weiand ran better times than the M1, victor and the holley SD. Car ran 10.9. Milder build than yours, but just saying. I used a 1in. open spacer.
 
Hey

Me and my father got a Dart 69 440 together which we bracket race with.
Last winter we changed the old high compression ~12.5;1 452 heads to a pair of aluminum heads ~10.6;1. We gained a little in the top end and lost in the bottom.

more info
440 0.030 over
Alu heads 84cc, 2.14, 1.81, 210cc Intake
850cfm Holley carb
Solid lifter 650lift, 320dur
727, 8" ATI 5000 stall,TB, 31*12 rears
Dana 60 w spool, 4.88
Holley blue fuel pump.
Revs a lot crossing the 1/4mile line

Engine peaked at ~560hp at ~6300rpm in the bench.
With the 452 heads it was 537hp at 6100.
From 4800rpm the alu heads were better all the way.
Here's a clip from this summer

Best ET for us 10.52s

Now where thinking about what to upgrade next. The intake is an old Weiand 7512 intake and planned to replace it with something better. We already have a RPM 7193 intake from another engine we could try and use.

Looking at info from sites like this:
#4---Ported Intake Manifolds UPDATED 08/27/2007
And an old chart from mopar muscle mag test from 2002.
Intake manifold Hp / Tq Avg Hp/Tq
(1) Edelbrock Victor : 637@6400 / 593@4700 568/570
(2) Holley Street Dominator : 636@6200 / 598@5000 573/571
(3) Mopar M1 (single plane) : 629@6100 / 589@4900 564/567
(4) Edelbrock TM7 : 618@6200 / 602@4900 569/568
(5) Edelbrock Torker 2 : 627@6300 / 593@4900 565/563
(6) Edelbrock Torker (orig) : 605@5500 / 608@4700 565/566
(7) Edelbrock Performer RPM : 610@6200 / 590@4000 556/555
(8) Edelbrock CH4B : 607@6400 / 573@4000 545/544
(9) Weiand team G (Track R) : 597@6300 / 569@4900 540/534
(10) Weiand action plus : 597@6300 / 564@4000 537/536
(11) factory 70-71 iron : 575@6200 / 581@4000 534/535

The Victor and Holley Street D (Strip Dominator the same?) seems like the best options.
Torker II and Mopar M1 as 2nd best.
RPM is a little bit away but maybe some porting on a RPM intake could help?

I asume a 950 carb could help a little also.
A friend thought we should change the 4.88 gears to 4.56 or 4.10s to lower the revs and go faster.



What is this forums general idea about the Weiand 7512 intake? It seems like an really old intake dated back to 1974.
And what other tweeks do you think can get us closer to the 9?

Best regards
just want to know what rpm you were at crossing lights?
I've got a 4.88 Dana going into my 70 dart & will be running about the same tire. Thanks
 
just want to know what rpm you were at crossing lights?
I've got a 4.88 Dana going into my 70 dart & will be running about the same tire. Thanks


I didn’t see where he posted his MPH so I’m using his ET and assuming his MPH matches that.

Now I can’t find his tire size so I’ll do a couple.

4.88 with 28 inch tires is about 7300.

4.88 with 30 inch tires is about 6800.

4.88 with 32 inch tires is about 6400.

That’s about as close as I can get with his actual MPH and tire size.
 
My old stock 440-6 bottom end, 9.8:1cr, 2.14/1.81 906's (260cfm) and the old .650" 290@.050 Mcandless sft cam made 530fwhp according to my mph/weight, ran an 850DP on a Dom Team G with 2" adapter to 4150. Had 4.88's/14x32's, 8" 4800stall, trapped@6600 and pulled all the way. I would get Thumper to build you a 1050-ish billet Dom with TF intake+adapter, going to a 950 if its actually a 950 won't do much over an 850, of course a TR+2 6>750's would be max hp and good for chasing ET but maybe not the best for consistency in brkt racing over a single.
 
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What size are the rear tires, what is the MPH/KPH going through the traps & what RPM going through the traps?
 
Actually just using the calc for yours, 560hp@3200lbs? 4.88/31"tyre....shows this>
60 Foot E.T. : 1.45
1/8 Mile E.T. : 6.57
1/8 Mile Trap Speed : 103.45
1/4 Mile E.T. : 10.41
1/4 Mile Trap Speed : 129
1/4 Mile Trap RPM : 6,811+ on average 8% slip? = 7355rpm
a gear change down to 4.30 would drop that to 6500@traps, with 4.56/6900rpm.
 
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My old stock 440-6 bottom end, 9.8:1cr, 2.14/1.81 906's (260cfm) and the old .650" 290@.050 Mcandless sft cam made 530fwhp according to my mph/weight, ran an 850DP on a Dom Team G with 2" adapter to 4150. Had 4.88's/14x32's, 8" 4800stall, trapped@6600 and pulled all the way. I would get Thumper to build you a 1050-ish billet Dom with TF intake+adapter, going to a 950 if its actually a 950 won't do much over an 850, of course a TR+2 6>750's would be max hp and good for chasing ET but maybe not the best for consistency in brkt racing over a single.
Is that cam you mentioned alot duration wise for the compression ratio? Curious for reasons on my build
 
That cam needed 12:1+, at least a 5000 stall and should never have worked as well as it did in my low comp motor but it did, I had the stall/gearing, it was designed for 906 heads to keep valves open longer I believe. I may have gone faster with a smaller cam but it was what it was, it ticked over@900rpm and tbh I didn't think it was that wild, too many guys picked much smaller cams and then wondered why there motor stopped pulling hard well before the traps.
 
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That cam needed 12:1+, at least a 5000 stall and should never have worked as well as it did in my low comp motor but it did, I had the stall/gearing, it was designed for 906 heads to keep valves open longer I believe. I may have gone faster with a smaller cam but it was what it was, it ticked over@900rpm and tbh I didn't think it was that wild, too many guys picked much smaller cams and then wondered why there motor stopped pulling hard well before the traps.
Okay cool, I'm trying to figure out why my builder wants to get a cam that's for 12.5:1 minimum for my 470 that is eeking out 11.8:1. He said he'll explain later today & I trust him. I think he was looking at a 263 intake 270 exhaust @.050 duration solid roller. I have trick flow 240s so maybe that is influential in his decision, but I don't yet know enough, I thought i knew something lol
 
Okay cool, I'm trying to figure out why my builder wants to get a cam that's for 12.5:1 minimum for my 470 that is eeking out 11.8:1. He said he'll explain later today & I trust him. I think he was looking at a 263 intake 270 exhaust @.050 duration solid roller. I have trick flow 240s so maybe that is influential in his decision, but I don't yet know enough, I thought i knew something lol

If you look at AndyF's 470 build with TF240's he used a 260's@.050 solid roller with 700+lift at only 10.5:1 to make 750hp, the heads are a lot to do with it yes.

We run a BIG mild wedge motor at only 10:1 with Indy 365CNC -13's and a small s/roller with only 260/270@.050, runs real good, makes its max power@5500>5900rpm, around 150hp less than it would@12.5:1 and with .750" lift and dur in the 270's+ but its a heavy street/strip car run on V-power pump swill that we don't wanna turn to 7000+rpm with a 4.500" stroke.
 
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If you look at AndyF's 470 build with TF240's he used a 260's@.050 solid roller with 700+lift at only 10.5:1 to make 750hp, the heads are a lot to do with it yes.

We run a BIG mild wedge motor at only 10:1 with Indy 365CNC -13's and a small s/roller with only 260/270@.050, runs real good, makes its max power@5500>5900rpm, around 150hp less than it would@12.5:1 and with .750" lift and dur in the 270's+ but its a heavy street/strip car run on V-power pump swill that we don't wanna turn to 7000+rpm with a 4.500" stroke.
Shoot, yes you're right. I keep forgetting that proven build of Andy's. I suppose I'm on the right track. Thank you kindly for your time
 
Hey

Me and my father got a Dart 69 440 together which we bracket race with.
Last winter we changed the old high compression ~12.5;1 452 heads to a pair of aluminum heads ~10.6;1. We gained a little in the top end and lost in the bottom.

more info
440 0.030 over
Alu heads 84cc, 2.14, 1.81, 210cc Intake
850cfm Holley carb
Solid lifter 650lift, 320dur
727, 8" ATI 5000 stall,TB, 31*12 rears
Dana 60 w spool, 4.88
Holley blue fuel pump.
Revs a lot crossing the 1/4mile line

Engine peaked at ~560hp at ~6300rpm in the bench.
With the 452 heads it was 537hp at 6100.
From 4800rpm the alu heads were better all the way.
Here's a clip from this summer

Best ET for us 10.52s

Now where thinking about what to upgrade next. The intake is an old Weiand 7512 intake and planned to replace it with something better. We already have a RPM 7193 intake from another engine we could try and use.

Looking at info from sites like this:
#4---Ported Intake Manifolds UPDATED 08/27/2007
And an old chart from mopar muscle mag test from 2002.
Intake manifold Hp / Tq Avg Hp/Tq
(1) Edelbrock Victor : 637@6400 / 593@4700 568/570
(2) Holley Street Dominator : 636@6200 / 598@5000 573/571
(3) Mopar M1 (single plane) : 629@6100 / 589@4900 564/567
(4) Edelbrock TM7 : 618@6200 / 602@4900 569/568
(5) Edelbrock Torker 2 : 627@6300 / 593@4900 565/563
(6) Edelbrock Torker (orig) : 605@5500 / 608@4700 565/566
(7) Edelbrock Performer RPM : 610@6200 / 590@4000 556/555
(8) Edelbrock CH4B : 607@6400 / 573@4000 545/544
(9) Weiand team G (Track R) : 597@6300 / 569@4900 540/534
(10) Weiand action plus : 597@6300 / 564@4000 537/536
(11) factory 70-71 iron : 575@6200 / 581@4000 534/535

The Victor and Holley Street D (Strip Dominator the same?) seems like the best options.
Torker II and Mopar M1 as 2nd best.
RPM is a little bit away but maybe some porting on a RPM intake could help?

I asume a 950 carb could help a little also.
A friend thought we should change the 4.88 gears to 4.56 or 4.10s to lower the revs and go faster.



What is this forums general idea about the Weiand 7512 intake? It seems like an really old intake dated back to 1974.
And what other tweeks do you think can get us closer to the 9?

Best regards

Victor and a street dominator the same ? I dont believe it !
Read hughs intake flow tests !
 
Actually just using the calc for yours, 560hp@3200lbs? 4.88/31"tyre....shows this>
60 Foot E.T. : 1.45
1/8 Mile E.T. : 6.57
1/8 Mile Trap Speed : 103.45
1/4 Mile E.T. : 10.41
1/4 Mile Trap Speed : 129
1/4 Mile Trap RPM : 6,811+ on average 8% slip? = 7355rpm
a gear change down to 4.30 would drop that to 6500@traps, with 4.56/6900rpm.

You are pretty close. I think we hit the trap at ~7000rpm, I barely have the guts to keep the foot down all the way. Trap speed 123mph.
We just found a original Torker 440 intake for $50

received_398014658108496.jpeg
 
So here it is, the 440 Torker.

128618045_192901325765492_2037814576229484034_n.png


Then the Weiand X-celerator 7512. Look at the size difference at the runners compared to Torker.
128862461_977440012783953_169879338698026633_n.png


Them next to each other.
128703309_1296800484030447_8768448696657824517_n.jpg


Then a pic of them and a Performer RPM.
128629369_293955108628078_6696701923029588760_n.jpg


Which one to pick... Just by looking at them, the Weiand looks pretty good for dragrace.
 
The 7512 is a real good intake. The plenum is huge compared to the Torker. The next 1 up that u don’t have is the TM7. What alloy heads do u have? Kim
 
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So here it is, the 440 Torker.

View attachment 1715639396

Then the Weiand X-celerator 7512. Look at the size difference at the runners compared to Torker.
View attachment 1715639397

Them next to each other.
View attachment 1715639398

Then a pic of them and a Performer RPM.
View attachment 1715639399

Which one to pick... Just by looking at them, the Weiand looks pretty good for dragrace.
Looks like there's some time put into the torker, they cut out the middle & blocked off the heat crossovers. The small runners are good for a street car, if I remember correctly the rpm vs the torker were a toss up, (rpm) some gains low...(torker) some gains high
 
Just had a guy who could sell us a Trick Flow intake, TFS-61600113
I can't find much flow or hp information about this intake but I do see some people in forums say they are as good or better than the Victor.

The heads are some copies of the Edelbrock E-street 5093, the values are very similar.
Little job on the valves and bowl, ports hasn't been touched by the looks of it.
 
Just had a guy who could sell us a Trick Flow intake, TFS-61600113
I can't find much flow or hp information about this intake but I do see some people in forums say they are as good or better than the Victor.

The heads are some copies of the Edelbrock E-street 5093, the values are very similar.
Little job on the valves and bowl, ports hasn't been touched by the looks of it.
Trickflow is rated to 7000 rpm, from what I've heard for a bolt on they're great. With enough room to port out maxwedge. I'm going to use 1 on my 470 build.
 
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