GMachineDartGT
Senior Member
Can anyone with EXPERIENCE tell me if the shifter position on an A body tail housing is the same on a GV overdrive? Something tells me no.
Gear Vendor and 833
- Thread starter GMachineDartGT
- Start date
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I could be wrong but isn't @HemiDenny running an 833 with a gear vendors he might be able to help.
Fast340cuda
Well-Known Member
I used an adapter plate from gear vendors when I installed mine to relocate the shifter mechanism to the proper a body floor location.
GMachineDartGT
Senior Member
thanks for the heads up. I’m calling them tomorrow
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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Short answer; in 2004 the only adapter available,was the longtail with the B/E pads.
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They sent this one because it's the only way to install the unit in an A-body with it not hitting the floor-pan. With an A-body tail, I imagine that you will have to either; raise the floor a lil bit, of drop the cross-member.
I had to saw off one lug and change from the front mount to fit it into the cross-member tunnel, and so that mount became unusable. Which left the E-body location,which is roughly 10 inches further back. From there I had to make my own adapter.I could have gone back to the A-body location. But in my case , with buckets, I chose to move it even further back, and up high enough to install the top bolt from inside the cabin. And then used a short-stick shifter.
So with the seat adjusted for me, and with the trans in neutral, I have the shifter pointing more or less vertical, and with my hand on the ball, my elbow hangs sortof just forward of vertical to my shoulder.
So now, having street slick-shifted second and third gears, and with my back in the seat; I can put enough power into the shifts that I can actually shift faster than the brass can whenever I want to. And I still let the brass do it's job the rest of the time.I haven't missed a shift since I moved the stick, back in 2004.
I made new stiff rods from seamless tubing that accepted, IIRC, a 3/8 tap. That was actually the easiest part of the modification. The adapter mount I made from 1/4 plate IIRC. I actually made three different ones, the third being the charm. I kept raising it and backing it up.
And my knuckles never hit the dash no more. If you have a 4 or 5 point harness, this is the way to go, I think.
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Don't forget; you cannot back up the car with the GV engaged! If you do; as little or less than 2 ft will instantly kill it and cost you a rebuild. So if you bypass the computer to use it as a splitter, you will have to engineer a way of preventing that. I mounted an LED on the tach to indicate "engaged", and learned to make a habit of looking at that stinking light before letting out the clutch.
And also, that unit can be power-shifted into, but when back-shifting, it has to be decoupled. This takes time. And the slower the driveshaft is turning the more time you have to allow for it. So with 3.23s for instance this is a bit of a problem. But with 4.30s, I found that shifting out of first-over at redline, and into second, I could just treat it like a regular foot-clutched shift, with a bit of a hesitation on the left foot. From second-over to third, the pump makes enough pressure that I quick stab on the clutch seems to be enough.
I run the 3.09 commando box and 3.55s, so second-over takes me to 93mph in the Eighth @ 6150 or something, with two electric powershifts and one pull on the stick. (see my sig below)
Good luck.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
They sent this one because it's the only way to install the unit in an A-body with it not hitting the floor-pan. With an A-body tail, I imagine that you will have to either; raise the floor a lil bit, of drop the cross-member.
I had to saw off one lug and change from the front mount to fit it into the cross-member tunnel, and so that mount became unusable. Which left the E-body location,which is roughly 10 inches further back. From there I had to make my own adapter.I could have gone back to the A-body location. But in my case , with buckets, I chose to move it even further back, and up high enough to install the top bolt from inside the cabin. And then used a short-stick shifter.
So with the seat adjusted for me, and with the trans in neutral, I have the shifter pointing more or less vertical, and with my hand on the ball, my elbow hangs sortof just forward of vertical to my shoulder.
So now, having street slick-shifted second and third gears, and with my back in the seat; I can put enough power into the shifts that I can actually shift faster than the brass can whenever I want to. And I still let the brass do it's job the rest of the time.I haven't missed a shift since I moved the stick, back in 2004.
I made new stiff rods from seamless tubing that accepted, IIRC, a 3/8 tap. That was actually the easiest part of the modification. The adapter mount I made from 1/4 plate IIRC. I actually made three different ones, the third being the charm. I kept raising it and backing it up.
And my knuckles never hit the dash no more. If you have a 4 or 5 point harness, this is the way to go, I think.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Don't forget; you cannot back up the car with the GV engaged! If you do; as little or less than 2 ft will instantly kill it and cost you a rebuild. So if you bypass the computer to use it as a splitter, you will have to engineer a way of preventing that. I mounted an LED on the tach to indicate "engaged", and learned to make a habit of looking at that stinking light before letting out the clutch.
And also, that unit can be power-shifted into, but when back-shifting, it has to be decoupled. This takes time. And the slower the driveshaft is turning the more time you have to allow for it. So with 3.23s for instance this is a bit of a problem. But with 4.30s, I found that shifting out of first-over at redline, and into second, I could just treat it like a regular foot-clutched shift, with a bit of a hesitation on the left foot. From second-over to third, the pump makes enough pressure that I quick stab on the clutch seems to be enough.
I run the 3.09 commando box and 3.55s, so second-over takes me to 93mph in the Eighth @ 6150 or something, with two electric powershifts and one pull on the stick. (see my sig below)
Good luck.
Last edited:
Hemirunner
Well-Known Member
I would think that you could wire it through a relay that would be tied to the reverse lights. As soon as that circuit was powered, the relay would open and prevent power to the OD.
mderoy340
Well-Known Member
make your own.
B/E body four-speed in an A-body
B/E body four-speed in an A-body
GMachineDartGT
Senior Member
The idea is to use their electronics so the unit shuts off when under 10 mph.
They claim to make an A body specific adapter, but I don’t see it on their site.
Since I have all correct console A body shifter parts, that’s critical.
I run 2.94s and need more OD. 3,000 @ 80 doesn’t cut it on the interstate.
They told be not to bother with used, although they seem to be everywhere for 800-1000. They price the adapter to make it cost prohibitive
They claim to make an A body specific adapter, but I don’t see it on their site.
Since I have all correct console A body shifter parts, that’s critical.
I run 2.94s and need more OD. 3,000 @ 80 doesn’t cut it on the interstate.
They told be not to bother with used, although they seem to be everywhere for 800-1000. They price the adapter to make it cost prohibitive
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2014
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- 24,871
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And in 2004 at least, I couldn't buy a second adapter. I would have to ship the current adapter back first.
I wanted to put my unit behind my 318/904 winter combo; and in summer, behind my 367/A833 combo.
And they would not sell me rebuild tools either.
I can understand a company wanting to protect their interests, and investment. That, however would be enough for me not to buy their product. Not selling you an adapter so you can use it on either of your setups is brutal. Poor on the part of Gear Vendors.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2014
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- 24,871
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For my combo it works exceptionally well, but a 5speed manual would be close enough, as could a 4-speed auto with a loc-up and a bit of stall. At the time 2004, I just didn't have the cash for a Nash, a Richmond, or a Tremec, and I didn't want an auto. And I would not hear about FABO, for another ten years; Joined in 2014.
If you think about it, an auto with a loc-up and a bit of stall is actually a neat combo.
The TC has an internal torque multiplier that can run typically to 1.8 at zero mph. So say your A500 has ratios of 2.74-1.54-1.00-.69, and it stalls at ~2400. Say your small-cam hi-compression teener is pumping out 280ftlbs at 2400rpm/360@peak-torque. All rpms are gonna be "about" and using 27" tires.
And you are gonna run 3.73s as in a previous post. This makes 65=2100, a perfect jumping off point for 20plus mpgs. So then your starter gear will be 3.73x2.45=9.14. Therefore with a manual trans, you would be slamming down 280x9.14=2560 ftlbs into the rear axles. But........ with an auto, the TC at zero mph could jack this up to say 1.6x2560=4100ftlbs@2400. Of course this multiplier rapidly decays to somewhere around 1.10 to 1.05, which would throttle it back.... automatically.. to a theoretical 2700ftlbs@2400,or so,(but you won't ever be there during the run to 60mph! on account of the rpm/torque is climbing as the ratio is diminishing.)
Basically, you can think of the TC as effectively multiplying at WOT,your 3.73s to 3.91s.
But at loc-up, the 3.91s revert to 3.73s.
And the .69 OD reduces that to 2.57s.
And you never have to service the clutch forever more.
Very clever, IMHO.
Now, for a streeter, 30 mph or so, is where it's at, so following are three examples with 30mph equalized to about 4000 at the top of first gear.
With the A999;those 3.73s are gonna get you 30mph@4000rpm in 2.74 first gear.With the right cam, that will be dynomite on the Kickdown; and second gear will get you 65mph@4900 so, not ideal but pretty darn close. and 65@2100 cruising in .69od. So yes you could use more rear gear, but that will increase your Rs at 30 and pretty soon it won't be worth kicking it down.
Don't forget, on-road torque of ; 4100ftlbs @2400@0mph,diminishing as the car starts moving, but simultaneously increasing with rpm; to say, reach a peak-torque of 360ftlbs x 2.74x3.73x1.05=
3863@ peak torque
Compare that to;
the standard A833. For the same 30mph@4000 in first; the standard 2.66low gear box would need 4.10s, and 1.92 second would then be 65@6400. The starter gear is 4.10x2.66=10.91 which is very good. But 65@3300 cruising. And the GVod would reduce that to 65@2600
Now how many on-road ftlbs at zero mph? With same engine, 10.91x280=3055ftlbs@2400rpm,increasing to
3930@peak torque
or the Commando box; using 3.55s, you get 65@5500 in second gear, giving you a starter gear of 3.55x3.09=10.97,very nice. And 30mph@4100 in first gear, also very nice....if a lil high. But again 65@2900 cruising and the GVod would reduce that to 65@2240.
Now how many on-road ftlbs at zero mph? With same engine, 10.97x280=3072 ftlbs@2400rpm increasing to
3950@peak torque.
So many ways to skin the cat; but you gotta admit the A999 is pretty clever for a two-gear streeter; 4100ftlbs at zero mph.......... just try and stick that!
I coulda used 3.91s with the auto for a better rpm at 60, but the A833/2.66box woudda never been able to stay in second to 60, on account of the 7000 plus rpm trap;(and there's almost nothing worse than seeing the guy you just wasted to 55, now, after the shift, come sneaking by you at the line). The Commando box is about perfect at 60 for a 224*cam say.
BTW, 360 ftlbs at peak-torque is only ~260hp, making that teener possibly tickle 330hp@5000 item... so it's not a monster,(1.04 hp/cube) just a sweet lil driver.Since it's the same engine in each example, the real-world torque numbers don't matter, you can just compare the percentage differences.And as you can see, the 30mph torque is within 2% from best to worst; that's because I tried to equalize the rpm at at 30mph, at the expense of all others.
Jus thinking out loud
If you think about it, an auto with a loc-up and a bit of stall is actually a neat combo.
The TC has an internal torque multiplier that can run typically to 1.8 at zero mph. So say your A500 has ratios of 2.74-1.54-1.00-.69, and it stalls at ~2400. Say your small-cam hi-compression teener is pumping out 280ftlbs at 2400rpm/360@peak-torque. All rpms are gonna be "about" and using 27" tires.
And you are gonna run 3.73s as in a previous post. This makes 65=2100, a perfect jumping off point for 20plus mpgs. So then your starter gear will be 3.73x2.45=9.14. Therefore with a manual trans, you would be slamming down 280x9.14=2560 ftlbs into the rear axles. But........ with an auto, the TC at zero mph could jack this up to say 1.6x2560=4100ftlbs@2400. Of course this multiplier rapidly decays to somewhere around 1.10 to 1.05, which would throttle it back.... automatically.. to a theoretical 2700ftlbs@2400,or so,(but you won't ever be there during the run to 60mph! on account of the rpm/torque is climbing as the ratio is diminishing.)
Basically, you can think of the TC as effectively multiplying at WOT,your 3.73s to 3.91s.
But at loc-up, the 3.91s revert to 3.73s.
And the .69 OD reduces that to 2.57s.
And you never have to service the clutch forever more.
Very clever, IMHO.
Now, for a streeter, 30 mph or so, is where it's at, so following are three examples with 30mph equalized to about 4000 at the top of first gear.
With the A999;those 3.73s are gonna get you 30mph@4000rpm in 2.74 first gear.With the right cam, that will be dynomite on the Kickdown; and second gear will get you 65mph@4900 so, not ideal but pretty darn close. and 65@2100 cruising in .69od. So yes you could use more rear gear, but that will increase your Rs at 30 and pretty soon it won't be worth kicking it down.
Don't forget, on-road torque of ; 4100ftlbs @2400@0mph,diminishing as the car starts moving, but simultaneously increasing with rpm; to say, reach a peak-torque of 360ftlbs x 2.74x3.73x1.05=
3863@ peak torque
Compare that to;
the standard A833. For the same 30mph@4000 in first; the standard 2.66low gear box would need 4.10s, and 1.92 second would then be 65@6400. The starter gear is 4.10x2.66=10.91 which is very good. But 65@3300 cruising. And the GVod would reduce that to 65@2600
Now how many on-road ftlbs at zero mph? With same engine, 10.91x280=3055ftlbs@2400rpm,increasing to
3930@peak torque
or the Commando box; using 3.55s, you get 65@5500 in second gear, giving you a starter gear of 3.55x3.09=10.97,very nice. And 30mph@4100 in first gear, also very nice....if a lil high. But again 65@2900 cruising and the GVod would reduce that to 65@2240.
Now how many on-road ftlbs at zero mph? With same engine, 10.97x280=3072 ftlbs@2400rpm increasing to
3950@peak torque.
So many ways to skin the cat; but you gotta admit the A999 is pretty clever for a two-gear streeter; 4100ftlbs at zero mph.......... just try and stick that!
I coulda used 3.91s with the auto for a better rpm at 60, but the A833/2.66box woudda never been able to stay in second to 60, on account of the 7000 plus rpm trap;(and there's almost nothing worse than seeing the guy you just wasted to 55, now, after the shift, come sneaking by you at the line). The Commando box is about perfect at 60 for a 224*cam say.
BTW, 360 ftlbs at peak-torque is only ~260hp, making that teener possibly tickle 330hp@5000 item... so it's not a monster,(1.04 hp/cube) just a sweet lil driver.Since it's the same engine in each example, the real-world torque numbers don't matter, you can just compare the percentage differences.And as you can see, the 30mph torque is within 2% from best to worst; that's because I tried to equalize the rpm at at 30mph, at the expense of all others.
Jus thinking out loud
Last edited:
GMachineDartGT
Senior Member
My combo is a little different. Current 833 has 3.09 first and 1.1 4th. My rear gear is 2.94 with an Eaton Tru Trac. The sb makes 505hp at 5700 and 526tq at 4300. I don’t have a tack and shift by mph. 50, 80, 110. 3,000 rpm is 78 mph. For me, that’s not quite comfortable cruising.
For me, the whole deal is based on shifter position which doesn’t seem to be a problem. The cost is a little high, but some searching around may yield some savings.
For me, the whole deal is based on shifter position which doesn’t seem to be a problem. The cost is a little high, but some searching around may yield some savings.
@GMachineDartGT were you ever able to sort this out?
My Hemi is slightly forward to allow the factory Hemi valve cover to clear the factory A/C components, mostly the blower motor. Additionally, my car was an automatic, so I added the 4-speed hump which may or may not be in the exact factory location. While the GV came with an A-body adapter, I made the my own adapter plate to put the shifter exactly where I wanted it in the hole.
My first attempt was to modify the GV adapter, then I had one made from scratch. I recently stumbled upon either the modified GV piece or my first attempt the other day. Wasn't rocket surgery, it had to go slightly forward and over a tad to fit my application.
My first attempt was to modify the GV adapter, then I had one made from scratch. I recently stumbled upon either the modified GV piece or my first attempt the other day. Wasn't rocket surgery, it had to go slightly forward and over a tad to fit my application.
GMachineDartGT
Senior Member
I haven’t changed anything. I’m not in the position to do anything just yet. It’s so smooth as is and has no issues besides, so I’m not in a huge rush. Tremec just came out with the TKX which is a huge improvement over the TKO of which
I’m not a fan.
Did you ever go the GV route?
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