Dirt track vent..

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mopower440

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Some of you thats been around here for a while may remember several years back when we ran a 1971 challenger/440 in the super stock class on the dirt tracks and did quite well, winning several track championships and MANY races over the years.My buddy that drove the car moved up to the super late models and not really racing much anymore. I got thinking about maybe building one myself and give it a shot..until i found out that all the tracks around here have changed the rules to the CRUSA, Crate Racing USA rules, which pretty much makes it to where anything else cant be competitive besides besides a GM crate engine..It just really upsets me. This class used to be so great to watch being there were Ford and mopars out there also along with chevys. Now its all monte carlos and camaros with sealed crate engines.No fun to even watch anymore. I dont understand why they make the rules for CRUSA so unfair to everything else besides the guys running the crate engines. I will post the rules so you all can see but a quick summary, Engine option #1 are the GM crate engines which are GM 350 cubic inch vortec headed, 350 HP and 390 TQ, run a 650 cfm 4bbl and the car has to weigh 3000 pounds. Ok Engine option #2 would be what anyone running a ford or mopar would have to go by: no more than 362 cubic inch, no more than a 500cfm 2bbl carb and has to weigh 3200 pounds!! I can deal with the extra weight but, damn, a 500 cfm 2bbl yet the GM crate guys can run a 650 cfm 4 bbl AND weigh less? I sure dont know it all, but i dont see how in the world anyone can compete running a ford or mopar against the crate guys with these rediculous rules! It makes me so mad, i used to love dirt racing and winning with mopars. I dont want to run the same thing everyone else does, so i wont be running a crate engine GM car. I will post the rules so you guys can take a look and maybe someone will know of a way to be competetive with a mopar using these crazy rules..
https://streetstocks.crateracinusa.com/downloads/get.aspx?i=579469
 
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All I have to say is review NASCAR and say, pro stock NHRA rules. And NHRA AA/F rules!!! EG pro stock you MUST use Holley EFI, and a certain model Holley throttle body!!! AA/F pretty much lays out WHAT ENGINE you must run, period.

I don't disagree with ya!!
 
All I have to say is review NASCAR and say, pro stock NHRA rules. And NHRA AA/F rules!!! EG pro stock you MUST use Holley EFI, and a certain model Holley throttle body!!! AA/F pretty much lays out WHAT ENGINE you must run, period.

I don't disagree with ya!!
Its a bunch of bull! Thats the reason i dont care nothing about nascar and now its moved to the dirt tracks.. What ever happened to building your own engine to a set of rules thats fair accross the board? Its not racing anymore. I cant stand that this has happened in dirt tracking. They had the crates running in a late model crate class already and now its spread to the stocks. Very sad. I just wish i could possibly build a mopar to compete using a 2 bbl but i dont see how thats possible..?
 
It is happening because of GM pumping kickbacks to these tracks. No ****. I was building Mopar 360s for a local kid for the last few years. He ran chubbys forever. He even got sick of the crate madness. They allow that engine in the B-mod and stock car classes. USRA sanction. He could compete with the Mopar engine. Had a couple wins. Probably could've had more, but, he was pretty conservative driving. Didn't want to tear his **** up. The B-mod class open engine rules are what you speak of hear.
 
It is happening because of GM pumping kickbacks to these tracks. No ****. I was building Mopar 360s for a local kid for the last few years. He ran chubbys forever. He even got sick of the crate madness. They allow that engine in the B-mod and stock car classes. USRA sanction. He could compete with the Mopar engine. Had a couple wins. Probably could've had more, but, he was pretty conservative driving. Didn't want to tear his **** up. The B-mod class open engine rules are what you speak of hear.

he could compete with the 360, but what carb did he use? did he go by the rules with a 500cfm 2bbl? If so, tell me more about this.
 
Yep, had to run the deuce. Not sure about the weights, though. I don't think he had to weigh more.
 
Yep, had to run the deuce. Not sure about the weights, though. I don't think he had to weigh more.
wow! can you tell me more about the build? I truly did NOT think there was any way to compete with the tiny carb..please tell me more about the build and what body did he run? Thanks!
 
you can get a 500 CFM 2bbl to flow ALOT. Heck they ran 390 4bbls in competition, and they didn't flow 390 anymore. Nice flat torque curve 360/380 crate with an AED 500 2bbl on it. Eat some chevy bumper!
 
You actually got alot of leaway on an option 2 motor...ANY FLAT TAPPET CAM? ANY INTAKE MANIFOLD?

Engine Option #2: 1. 362 cubic inch maximum, factory steel production blocks. 2. Weight = 3,200 lbs. 3. Any cast iron 23* steel heads. No porting or polishing of cylinder head. No aluminum heads. 4. Max valve size: 2.02” intake, and 1.6” exhaust. 5. Any intake manifolds. No porting or polishing. 6. Steel or cast cranks and rods. No exotic material cranks or rods (ex.: aluminum or titanium) 7. Flat top pistons only. 8. Any flat tappet camshaft only. No roller cams. 9. Timing chains only. No gear drives. Page 4 of 11 10. Stud mount rockers only. No stud girdles. 11. Stock diameter valve springs only. 1.260” maximum O.D. Beehive springs allowed, 1.320” maximum O.D., ANY manufacturer (Chevy, Ford, or Dodge). NO double valve springs

so you could run RHS MA-X heads, a .650 lift cam (with those beehive springs) and a Strip Dominator with a 2bbl adapter? maybe thats why you gotta run a 2bbl and 200 lbs of dope in the trunk.
 
You actually got alot of leaway on an option 2 motor...ANY FLAT TAPPET CAM? ANY INTAKE MANIFOLD?

Engine Option #2: 1. 362 cubic inch maximum, factory steel production blocks. 2. Weight = 3,200 lbs. 3. Any cast iron 23* steel heads. No porting or polishing of cylinder head. No aluminum heads. 4. Max valve size: 2.02” intake, and 1.6” exhaust. 5. Any intake manifolds. No porting or polishing. 6. Steel or cast cranks and rods. No exotic material cranks or rods (ex.: aluminum or titanium) 7. Flat top pistons only. 8. Any flat tappet camshaft only. No roller cams. 9. Timing chains only. No gear drives. Page 4 of 11 10. Stud mount rockers only. No stud girdles. 11. Stock diameter valve springs only. 1.260” maximum O.D. Beehive springs allowed, 1.320” maximum O.D., ANY manufacturer (Chevy, Ford, or Dodge). NO double valve springs

so you could run RHS MA-X heads, a .650 lift cam (with those beehive springs) and a Strip Dominator with a 2bbl adapter? maybe thats why you gotta run a 2bbl and 200 lbs of dope in the trunk.

what heads are those you speak of? (i dont know much about small blocks, always messed with big blocks so learning..) also, im still trying to figure out how the thing would breath even with a huge cam and high flow heads being it will be choked off by the small 2bbl carb..but i am VERY interested because i would love to do this if i can be competitive..!
 
crate racing has took over dirt racing cause if its sealed its sposed to be legal and track dont have to do tech, or pay a tech man! also take the responsibility off track to dq a driver! yes theres kick backs from dealers to tracks in there area, modern chevy in wiston salam is one i know dose this! no different than tire rules, you gotta run hoosiers or american racers depending on witch works best deal with track, that sales you your tires every week! sad thing bout crate motors is, honest joe go buy one from chevy thats 350hp and 390 tq and run it with chevy seals! mr deeppockets buys his crate from a engine builder who has bought a lot of engines, tore them all down, messured and weight erry piece of these motors swapping parts around and working the tolerances allowed per crate engine manual and builds these now blue printed motors thats been dyno broke in and put out 370hp an 410tq with builder seals for twice the price of the chevy crate! its killing the sport! but think thats bad, lot more money being spent on shocks than motors!!!!! at my track dont even check seals, if ya protested you pull your motor send it to...that builder put it on his dyno and long as it dont make 380 hp its called legal! in the budget 602 class its ok to pull a vortec motor otta a junkyard and run it with any non air gap intake...good luck with it if ya do it! i got 2 late models can go cheap,1 race ready non sealed 602 other a good roller! right price ill throw in the bruster baker ecinoline rv and open car trailer...DWB!
 
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That's just stupid. Sanctioning bodies aren't just content with ruining NASCAR and NHRA, they have to slither down the ladder and ruin everything else, too.
 
Yep, I remember those days. I kicks some of those Chevy asses with my tank back in the day. They hated to see me show up so some of them would hit me on purpose just to try an spin me out but the little Camaro's were like bugs to my big old Plymouth. Then they slowly started changing the track rules. It was and still is Bull ****!

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Some of you thats been around here for a while may remember several years back when we ran a 1971 challenger/440 in the super stock class on the dirt tracks and did quite well, winning several track championships and MANY races over the years.My buddy that drove the car moved up to the super late models and not really racing much anymore. I got thinking about maybe building one myself and give it a shot..until i found out that all the tracks around here have changed the rules to the CRUSA, Crate Racing USA rules, which pretty much makes it to where anything else cant be competitive besides besides a GM crate engine..It just really upsets me. This class used to be so great to watch being there were Ford and mopars out there also along with chevys. Now its all monte carlos and camaros with sealed crate engines.No fun to even watch anymore. I dont understand why they make the rules for CRUSA so unfair to everything else besides the guys running the crate engines. I will post the rules so you all can see but a quick summary, Engine option #1 are the GM crate engines which are GM 350 cubic inch vortec headed, 350 HP and 390 TQ, run a 650 cfm 4bbl and the car has to weigh 3000 pounds. Ok Engine option #2 would be what anyone running a ford or mopar would have to go by: no more than 362 cubic inch, no more than a 500cfm 2bbl carb and has to weigh 3200 pounds!! I can deal with the extra weight but, damn, a 500 cfm 2bbl yet the GM crate guys can run a 650 cfm 4 bbl AND weigh less? I sure dont know it all, but i dont see how in the world anyone can compete running a ford or mopar against the crate guys with these rediculous rules! It makes me so mad, i used to love dirt racing and winning with mopars. I dont want to run the same thing everyone else does, so i wont be running a crate engine GM car. I will post the rules so you guys can take a look and maybe someone will know of a way to be competetive with a mopar using these crazy rules..
https://streetstocks.crateracinusa.com/downloads/get.aspx?i=579469

Simple , they have joined the nhra and nascar , "chevies only "!
 
wow! can you tell me more about the build? I truly did NOT think there was any way to compete with the tiny carb..please tell me more about the build and what body did he run? Thanks!
It was a Magnum build. For the B-Mod engine we used the stock Magnum block and crank. Put Scat rods in it. Used the GOOD EQ CH318B cylinder heads(LA intake pattern). Weiand Stealth Intake. Hughes Engines spec'd the cam, had to be hydraulic. We were going to do the ever popular 1.6 chevy steel roller rocker on the Magnum heads. I'd still like to know how this is done properly. To say that the geometry was DOGSHIT is the understatement of the century! So, we just used the factory stamped rockers. Never an issue. Sometimes the KISS method is best. Pistons were a custom dish to yeild 9.0-1 compression and still have good quench to the head. exhaust was your garden variety Schoenfeld Mod headers.
 
crate racing has took over dirt racing cause if its sealed its sposed to be legal and track dont have to do tech, or pay a tech man! also take the responsibility off track to dq a driver! yes theres kick backs from dealers to tracks in there area, modern chevy in wiston salam is one i know dose this! no different than tire rules, you gotta run hoosiers or american racers depending on witch works best deal with track, that sales you your tires every week! sad thing bout crate motors is, honest joe go buy one from chevy thats 350hp and 390 tq and run it with chevy seals! mr deeppockets buys his crate from a engine builder who has bought a lot of engines, tore them all down, messured and weight erry piece of these motors swapping parts around and working the tolerances allowed per crate engine manual and builds these now blue printed motors thats been dyno broke in and put out 370hp an 410tq with builder seals for twice the price of the chevy crate! its killing the sport! but think thats bad, lot more money being spent on shocks than motors!!!!! at my track dont even check seals, if ya protested you pull your motor send it to...that builder put it on his dyno and long as it dont make 380 hp its called legal! in the budget 602 class its ok to pull a vortec motor otta a junkyard and run it with any non air gap intake...good luck with it if ya do it! i got 2 late models can go cheap,1 race ready non sealed 602 other a good roller! right price ill throw in the bruster baker ecinoline rv and open car trailer...DWB!
We have a couple of "certified" crate rebuilders around here, too. You're exactly right about the money and politics of when and whose engines get rebuilt. Not all rebuilt crates are created equal!!
 
a 500 CFM 2bbl pulls 628cfm at 7 inches vacuum, not a problem on a circle track motor. "...A 650 carb on a 358 cubic inch engine will seldom see 1.5 inches but a 350 (500) carb on the same engine will frequently see 5 to 8 inches. At 7 inches of vacuum the 350 (500)carb is really flowing about 430-440 (628) cfm..."Holley 2 Barrel Carburetors & Holley Double Carbs | Camcraft Cams

Mallory ran a series that only used Mallory ignition. Said it limited the top end to keep the build cheap. IIRC hard rev limit at 7000 or something. that makes a little sense as someone could not run a 9500 NASCAR motor to its potential. Its all money. you run an unlimited class and you will lose if you are not uber rich, or are not sponsored by a deep wallet. Who would want to see the same car win every race its in, outclassing every other car in the race? Think the first year Hemi in NASCAR or even the Hyper pak slant in the 1960 NASCAR jr. series. Remember that snooze fest IROC? talk about identical cars, they were just painted differently, almost like "the car of tomorrow" in todays NASCAR. Same chassis, choice of 3 motor builders or some crap.
 
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Around here, it's very political. Promoters are known to let things slide for certain people so the outcome is favorable to the masses.
 
^^^^ That happens everywhere ^^^^ I raced in Ohio, PA, West Virginia, and Indiana. They all had track favorites. On top of that if you ran a Mopar and were from out of town you had a bullseye on you. I'll show my age here and tell you I liked it when someone showed up with an AMC. Then they got picked on a bit more. But there was sure no love lost for a Ford. I just didn't get it? I showed up to race. If you win fair and square I'm fine with that, but the tip the scales for one side or the other just pissed me off until I couldn't take it anymore and got out. I did move up to dirt late model for awhile but it was just to much money for my blood and with little to no sponsors and the BS that was enough.
 
I bought a car off of Don Gross and reskined it. Sorry for the bad picture but it is the only one I have. It was on the cover of the 1983 Mopar oval track book. Don was the Mopar dirt track go to guy back then and lived about an hours drive from me. I learned a lot from that man. Great guy too.

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Simple , they have joined the nhra and nascar , "chevies only "!

It's been that way forever though, it just continues to get worse. Both Wally Parks and Bill France had hard ons for Chevy so much that they had their hands on the scale. Were it not for them, Chevy wouldda never had a chance between Ford and Chrysler. No way, no how. They had to sanction everybody else and even then Chevy almost couldn't win.
 
To the OP, sorry to hijack you thread but you hit a nerve with me. Now I'll get off of my soapbox :drama:
 
To the OP, sorry to hijack you thread but you hit a nerve with me. Now I'll get off of my soapbox :drama:
No man your absolutely fine! Glad to hear your input! member 408 swinger has me seriously thinking about building a 360 like he did and give it a shot! I would love to get the controversy at the tracks going again when the chevy guys just can figure out why the old mopar kicks so much butt!! Whenever we decided to travel to another track during an off night from the local track, people already knew who we were when we showed up because there was so much talk in the dirt track world in the TN./Alabama area of how much we won! We made a LOT of money from being found legal in all the protests against us! It was a blast! One time, another mopar driver who also won quite a bit got so mad, he paid one of the chevy drivers to take us out! We were leading the race and the chevy guy slowed down and when we came back around to lap him, he ran us into the wall! The track opened one of the gates they never open and told him to get out of there before he got his butt beat off..they knew an *** whoopin was coming. They banned the chevy guy for a few weeks. We talked our driver into letting it go and he promissed to leave the guy alone when he came back, so the night he comes back, we take the lead and make several laps, then our driver slowed down and let this guy get next to him on the outside, then he slammed into the side of him and nailed the throttle and held him against the wall until they had to take his car off the track with 2 wreckers! we were so pissed at our driver for doing it, especially when we were leading the race, but he said he just couldnt let it go..lol..408 swinger, what mopar body did your guy use the 360 in?
 
Here is some old video of us back in the day. The video of the first 20 minutes or so is wore out so its kinda messed up but there is some good footage later in the video. We are the petty blue #41. In the first few races you will see 2 of the same #41 cars as our drivers brother used to also race, but the later videos are just the one car. if you got to 25:58 in the video, there is some real clear and good footage, but its all cool to watch, and also 1:06:26
 
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