35 mph WOT power loss

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DentalDart said:
and have never been able to get it to go away.
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The flare is a pressure timing issue, not adjustable, the trans IMO will have to come down.
DentalDart said:
I dont have any bog when going WOT from a stop, only when cruising. If I ease into it there is no bog at all, only WOT.
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You may be out of pumpshot. The accelerator pump circuit has to be tuned to the minimum amount at a stop to overcome the bog, so that there is still some left later.
DentalDart said:
Reason I think 750 is it will allow me to continue to upgrade the engine then not be back to having to small of a carb...
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IMO for a streeter that is false logic.
The 600 is good to 5750 at 100% VE , (VolumetricEfficiency), at STP (Standard pressure and temperature), which a typical streeter will very likely never see, and if it does, in first gear the tires will be spinning anyway.Rpm of 5750 with 27" tires and 3.55s maths to 77mph in Second gear. You'll need a 292 or bigger cam, and good heads to be still pulling at that rpm.
Yeah I know, people say that formula does not work.
But even if it is off by 10%,ask yourself how often will you be at 77mph at WOT/second gear, that a few hp could break your combo?
My 367 has a 750DP on it because I already had it since the 70s.
Any engine, will pull whatever cfm that it is physically able to, thru any carb that is at least close in size to what it should have. If it can pull only 600cfm, then a 700/800/900 will not make any more significant power than a good-working 600.
But the penalty for a too-big a carb is; less than optimum throttle response, a reduced fuel-efficiency, sometimes hard to solve bogs, and/or hesitations..
I'm not saying to buy Rusty's 600. I am saying if you are made of money, buy whatever you want. But if like most of us, yur not, and Rusty gives you a fair price, then it's a good deal. It will be a great carb to learn on because it's the right size for maybe 90% or more of your driving needs.

But if you really want to try tuning the Eddy, there are several/possibly many, guys here, that can help you thru it.
 
AJ/FormS said:
The flare is a pressure timing issue, not adjustable, the trans IMO will have to come down.

You may be out of pumpshot. The accelerator pump circuit has to be tuned to the minimum amount at a stop to overcome the bog, so that there is still some left later.

IMO for a streeter that is false logic.
The 600 is good to 5750 at 100% VE , (VolumetricEfficiency), at STP (Standard pressure and temperature), which a typical streeter will very likely never see, and if it does, in first gear the tires will be spinning anyway.Rpm of 5750 with 27" tires and 3.55s maths to 77mph in Second gear. You'll need a 292 or bigger cam, and good heads to be still pulling at that rpm.
Yeah I know, people say that formula does not work.
But even if it is off by 10%,ask yourself how often will you be at 77mph at WOT/second gear, that a few hp could break your combo?
My 367 has a 750DP on it because I already had it since the 70s.
Any engine, will pull whatever cfm that it is physically able to, thru any carb that is at least close in size to what it should have. If it can pull only 600cfm, then a 700/800/900 will not make any more significant power than a good-working 600.
But the penalty for a too-big a carb is; less than optimum throttle response, a reduced fuel-efficiency, sometimes hard to solve bogs, and/or hesitations..
I'm not saying to buy Rusty's 600. I am saying if you are made of money, buy whatever you want. But if like most of us, yur not, and Rusty gives you a fair price, then it's a good deal. It will be a great carb to learn on because it's the right size for maybe 90% or more of your driving needs.

But if you really want to try tuning the Eddy, there are several/possibly many, guys here, that can help you thru it.
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Will you explain the top 2 quotes a little bit more please and thanks.
 
He's running an AVS, and nobody has thought about air door adjustment?
 
Update- after adjusting the last tiny bit of slack out of the line, flare up is pretty much all but eliminated... from stop to WOT 2 crisp shifts.

Light throttle driving around 35-40mph to WOT big bog. Like it is dying from being out of fuel or something...
 
DentalDart said:
Just double checked the kd and adjusted it a little. It is 100% slack free at WOT now... now I just have to drive it and see what happens. I also want to check out my acc pump in the carb, make sure it is working as it should.

View attachment 1715653043
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"Slack free" don't mean dick. When the gas pedal is on the floor, is the kickdown lever on the transmission as far back as it can possibly go? Have you crawled under and checked it with someone holding their foot on the pedal on the floor?
 
DentalDart said:
Update- after adjusting the last tiny bit of slack out of the line, flare up is pretty much all but eliminated... from stop to WOT 2 crisp shifts.

Light throttle driving around 35-40mph to WOT big bog. Like it is dying from being out of fuel or something...
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That's really sweet and all but is it down shifting? It sounds to me like you BARELY have it adjusted in the most conservative acceptably spot possible. In other words, you need a lot more throttle pressure. Make sure the kickdown lever is all the way back as I described above. I don't think it is, because you keep finding "a little more" adjustment. Once you get the kickdown lever ALL THE WAY BACK AS FAR AS IT WILL GO when the pedal is on the floor, drive it and report back. I swear to GOD I thought we'd gone over this in another thread already. This is not something to take lightly and just "keep driving" around. You'll burn that transmission right on up.
 
RustyRatRod said:
"Slack free" don't mean dick. When the gas pedal is on the floor, is the kickdown lever on the transmission as far back as it can possibly go? Have you crawled under and checked it with someone holding their foot on the pedal on the floor?
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That's why I like the stock mechanical linkage. No helper needed.
 
Sounds like it had a lean "pop" out the carb before it "went". So, as per my previous post, that air door is opening a little too quickly. Now with that out of the way, the trans kicking down properly would help that situation a little.
 
RustyRatRod said:
That's really sweet and all but is it down shifting? It sounds to me like you BARELY have it adjusted in the most conservative acceptably spot possible. In other words, you need a lot more throttle pressure. Make sure the kickdown lever is all the way back as I described above. I don't think it is, because you keep finding "a little more" adjustment. Once you get the kickdown lever ALL THE WAY BACK AS FAR AS IT WILL GO when the pedal is on the floor, drive it and report back. I swear to GOD I thought we'd gone over this in another thread already. This is not something to take lightly and just "keep driving" around. You'll burn that transmission right on up.
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I have done this multiple times. Every time I adjust the line pressure at the trans I make sure its adjusted at the carb. Its been a never ending back and forth with the 2...

I just came out here again. It is 100 percent adjusted at the carb and the transmission. My wife pressed the pedal for me, literally just now...
 
DentalDart said:
I have done this multiple times. Every time I adjust the line pressure at the trans I make sure its adjusted at the carb. Its been a never ending back and forth with the 2...

I just came out here again. It is 100 percent adjusted at the carb and the transmission. My wife pressed the pedal for me, literally just now...
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Well buddy, SOMETHIN ain't right!
 
i've had similar responses from having a little crud getting in my secondary needle, and by retarding the distributer a little too far. Are you smelling gas after stomping on it? Do you run the vacuum advance on your distributor?
 
like_A_pike said:
i've had similar responses from having a little crud getting in my secondary needle, and by retarding the distributer a little too far. Are you smelling gas after stomping on it? Do you run the vacuum advance on your distributor?
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No I don't smell any gas when stomping on it. I do have vacuum advance and it is set up and timed properly due to me not being the one who did it lol.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Well buddy, SOMETHIN ain't right!
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This is even more true now... :rofl: I just went and tested it a little more after giving it a touch tighter adjustment with my wife pressing gas the pedal... and now I won't be driving anywhere until I either fix the ac system and hoses.. or bypass the whole system... :BangHead: blew an old ac hose testing just now... antifreeze everywhere.

Also when adjusting the line a touch tighter it didnt want to shift into 2nd until much higher speed. So I backed off it a touch after sticking the rag to catch the spraying antifreeze. Im happy it did it here instead of while I was out and around town though...

20201219_190251.jpg
 
Looks like I could just get a couple of regular 5/8 antifreeze hoses and put them there.
 
FYI the brass colored rod in your picture in post #25 is the accelerator pump rod, should be attached to a three holed lever. I agree 100% this thing should downshift as soon as you go to WOT, but whether it's a TV adjustment or internal issue I can't say. But definitely shouldn't be getting hung in gear and not downshifting.
 
DentalDart said:
This is even more true now... :rofl: I just went and tested it a little more after giving it a touch tighter adjustment with my wife pressing gas the pedal... and now I won't be driving anywhere until I either fix the ac system and hoses.. or bypass the whole system... :BangHead: blew an old ac hose testing just now... antifreeze everywhere.

Also when adjusting the line a touch tighter it didnt want to shift into 2nd until much higher speed. So I backed off it a touch after sticking the rag to catch the spraying antifreeze. Im happy it did it here instead of while I was out and around town though...

View attachment 1715653206
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You run antifreeze in the A/C system?
 
DentalDart said:
only the heater works lol.
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Worked*

That hose is what brings heat into the car. Replace it with new heater hose, hopefully it was just an old hose and not over pressure in the system.

Regarding the kickdown, when the line pressure and the throttle pressure lever are set right the lever will be all the way back when WOT. You don't back off the throttle valve linkage to lower the shift point - that's the job of the governor and or line pressure (they each affect one another). It's more work, but it's the right way to do it.

The flare is also not something you should try and solve with the throttle pressure. It's a band adjustment or line pressure issue.

You're real close, but you don't like how it drives when the throttle lever is set where it should be and the flare is still kinda there when it shouldn't be. I think you need to put the throttle valve where everyone says you should, and then fix the band until the flare is gone. Then call some vendors for suggestions on Governor weights that will work with your shift kit and desired shift rpm at WOT.
 
Phreakish said:
Worked*

That hose is what brings heat into the car. Replace it with new heater hose, hopefully it was just an old hose and not over pressure in the system.

Regarding the kickdown, when the line pressure and the throttle pressure lever are set right the lever will be all the way back when WOT. You don't back off the throttle valve linkage to lower the shift point - that's the job of the governor and or line pressure (they each affect one another). It's more work, but it's the right way to do it.

The flare is also not something you should try and solve with the throttle pressure. It's a band adjustment or line pressure issue.

You're real close, but you don't like how it drives when the throttle lever is set where it should be and the flare is still kinda there when it shouldn't be. I think you need to put the throttle valve where everyone says you should, and then fix the band until the flare is gone. Then call some vendors for suggestions on Governor weights that will work with your shift kit and desired shift rpm at WOT.
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Good luck with THAT sinkin in. lol
 
RustyRatRod said:
Good luck with THAT sinkin in. lol
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Nah, Doc listens well enough. He's just starting with a lot less experience than many of us. We all start somewhere, he just started in the deep end
:lol:

I mean I've got 25+ years of dealing with all kinds of cars and half my family were mechanics, transmission rebuilders, racers and more. Hell, you were there when horses were still the preferred form of locomotion. :poke:

Some lessons just have to happen in order to truly comprehend how the system works.
 
Phreakish said:
Nah, Doc listens well enough. He's just starting with a lot less experience than many of us. We all start somewhere, he just started in the deep end
:lol:

I mean I've got 25+ years of dealing with all kinds of cars and half my family were mechanics, transmission rebuilders, racers and more. Hell, you were there when horses were still the preferred form of locomotion. :poke:

Some lessons just have to happen in order to truly comprehend how the system works.
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you got all that right.
 
May not apply, but....

Oldmanmopar pointed out that there are two kick down levers that mount on the 904.

One is 4bbl specific and the other is 2bbl specific. He mentioned that a 2bbl lever could be modified by drilling a hole closer to the centerline of the trans shaft. I don't know the dimensions.

The hole being closer would change the rate the lever moves compared to the throttle lever.
 
Phreakish said:
Worked*

That hose is what brings heat into the car. Replace it with new heater hose, hopefully it was just an old hose and not over pressure in the system.

Regarding the kickdown, when the line pressure and the throttle pressure lever are set right the lever will be all the way back when WOT. You don't back off the throttle valve linkage to lower the shift point - that's the job of the governor and or line pressure (they each affect one another). It's more work, but it's the right way to do it.

The flare is also not something you should try and solve with the throttle pressure. It's a band adjustment or line pressure issue.

You're real close, but you don't like how it drives when the throttle lever is set where it should be and the flare is still kinda there when it shouldn't be. I think you need to put the throttle valve where everyone says you should, and then fix the band until the flare is gone. Then call some vendors for suggestions on Governor weights that will work with your shift kit and desired shift rpm at WOT.
Click to expand...

Governer weights? Is that the governer in the vb? The kit says to machine my stock governer in the vb, can I buy a completely new one already done?

You say throttle valve, you mean the kd linkage right? That is set correct right now, I wish I could video it and post it here. You could all listen to my wife complain about having to press the gas pedal again lol.

RustyRatRod said:
Good luck with THAT sinkin in. lol
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I always listen to and do what you suggest :) others... sometimes not so much :p I promise, I've done the whole kd linkage so many times.. kinda like taking the vb apart, I feel as if I know it like the back of my hand lol.
 
Dana67Dart said:
May not apply, but....

Oldmanmopar pointed out that there are two kick down levers that mount on the 904.

One is 4bbl specific and the other is 2bbl specific. He mentioned that a 2bbl lever could be modified by drilling a hole closer to the centerline of the trans shaft. I don't know the dimensions.

The hole being closer would change the rate the lever moves compared to the throttle lever.
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I have 2 levers as well. We've gone over this before. I wonder if I should switch them out and see if I can adjust the other and get it set a little better.
 
DentalDart said:
Governer weights? Is that the governer in the vb? The kit says to machine my stock governer in the vb, can I buy a completely new one already done?

You say throttle valve, you mean the kd linkage right? That is set correct right now, I wish I could video it and post it here. You could all listen to my wife complain about having to press the gas pedal again lol.



I always listen to and do what you suggest :) others... sometimes not so much :p I promise, I've done the whole kd linkage so many times.. kinda like taking the vb apart, I feel as if I know it like the back of my hand lol.
Click to expand...


Yes, you can get pre-made governor weights and springs (I think there's a spring involved, can't remember for sure). The governor is in the tail housing on the output shaft. It's not in the vb. It controls shift timing and line pressure based on driveshaft rpm (changing rear gears often means the governor needs to be tweaked). If I remember right, there's quite a few choices so I'd call the vendors to see what they suggest. Fine tuning is often needed but it's not too hard based on what I remember.

Yes, by throttle lever I mean the kickdown. Specifically the kickdown lever on the trans.
 
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