8 3/4 axle end play question ??

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HotRod20

HotRod20

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I changed out the the center section today, and when I went to adjust the axle end play,I tapped on the drivers axle with a rubber mallet to seat it, and proceeded to adjust the pass side for adjustment. I checked the end play of the driver side, and the driver side still had about 1/8" of end play in even after I adjusted the pass side axle per factory specs.
So again, I tapped on the driver side axle to make sure the bearing was seated.

Then I fully seated the pass axle bearing, but still had play on the driver side.??

Any idea's? I do have factory adjustable bearings, I made sure the "buttons" were installed in the gear before installing also. The driver side has slight up and down movement, and slight side to side movement.
Maybe the bearing is worn out?? any thoughts?
Thanks
HotRod20
 
That is not Normal for sure.

Are these factory axles?

If the cone bearings are installed correctly there should be no issue in adjusting the Passenger side for end play. Did you pack the bearings with grease first?

Is this a Sure Grip Center?

If so maybe your internals are not aligned for full axle penetration!
 
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Yes bearings packed with grease, the posi unit is a new clutch posi unit from Jegs. Axles seem to fit into the splines.
Dutchman aftermarket axles.Trying to gather many opinions. Before I take the axles back out again.
HotRod20
 
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You may need to pull the center as well and check for full axle engagement!
 
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I have that in back of my mind.... I pulled the axles when I got home today,..and will try from step one again.
I am using the 69 factory service manual as my guide. Section 3-16 axle end play adjustment.
Thanks
HotRod20
 
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HotRod20 said:
.......Maybe the bearing is worn out?? any thoughts?.......
Click to expand...

And the axle play was fine with the other center? If so what is different between the two centers?

upload_2021-5-3_18-55-45.png
 
Maybe someone can provide you with the exact measurements of the original axels. Before installing aftermarket parts you have to measure them always twice. Unfortunately most of those parts are often way out of specs.
I never threw old parts away until I was sure the replacement fitted properly.

Cheers,
Wolfgang
 
*Daves69/ I didnt check the axle end play before pulling the axles out, I was just focused on getting that non posi 3:23 out of the housing.
*Wolfgang, good idea, if anyone has a measurement for stock A body 8 3/4 axles, that would be great.
Im going to measure these Dutchman axles that came with the car to compare.
Thanks
HotRod20
 
If you have the axles out anyway, swap them side to side and see if anything changes.

It would be great if you had a helper on the opposite side to see if, when you push on one side, they can feel it on the other side...
 
I always,

Well standard type axles and cone bearings with a known Center with the correct rub block or 3 piece spool. After inserting Axels if a rebuild was preformed to check engagement.

Install the driver side first and fully seated and torqued to spec, then the Passenger side and adjust the end play accordingly!

Oh, you mentioned Dutchmen axles, We seem to have another thread going on at the same time with big issues. Are these the Green Bearings installed on your axles and if not new to the car did the old center have no rub block? If so you have your answer!

If using these type bearings the Thrust block/Spool must be removed.

What would cause my barely used green bearing to do this?
 
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1969383S, the car had Dutchmen axles in it when I acquired it. I dont have any history on the car. It has tapered roller bearings on both axles, with factory adjustment plate on the passenger side.

I had Gear Motive 3:73 gears with a Jegs, clutch type posi installed in a 742 case. The posi unit has the thrust buttons in it. You can see them looking down the axle tubes on both sides. Oh and I measured the Dutchmen axles, and they are both 28" from axle flange surface to end of splines.

The 3:23 non-posi section I pulled out, had no thrust buttons. That is what's confusing me, in that I have what I believe to be the correct parts going forward, but am experiencing excessive end play (1/8") on the drivers side axle.

At this point, I am going to replace both tapered bearings with new bearing cups and try this again. I would expect excessive end play with the non posi gear with no thrust buttons, but why do I have excessive play with thrust buttons? I do have another 3:23 posi with buttons to try,.. with these Dutchmen axles,.. if I have to test fit with another center section. The kicker is I just filled the case with gear lube and friction modifier which I will have to drain out if I pull the 3:73's out. Fudge...:( "Just when you think you have it right...those darn Gremlins come out and mess thing up"..lol
 
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1969383S : Install the driver side first and fully seated and torqued to spec, then the Passenger side and adjust the end play accordingly!
This is exactly the procedure I am following. The factory service manual says the same thing. I agree:)
I have never had an 8 3/4 issue like this in 40 yrs. I appreciate the input from the members here,....I'm starting to lose my mind on this...lol
HotRod20
 
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I had this issue once a long time ago. The adjuster on the passenger side would not screw far enough in(clockwise). It made the pass side tight with no play. I changed the bearing and adjuster and all was fine. Btw the thrust block is 1 1/2 inches wide while the pins in the clutch u it are 1 3/8 wide. Kim
 
Thanks Kim for that info, yesterday I had the bearings on both axles removed to replace them with new tapered bearings. The machinist
showed me a 1/8 " spacer on the passenger side axle with the adjuster. I am thinking since the driver side had 1/8" too much end play,...could this be the culprit? Before he pressed on new bearings he wanted me to check and make sure my brake drums had the same depth from center hole
to a flat surface, and check to make sure this Axle wasn't modified at the flanges,and to make sure its an A body hsg. So far everything checks out, the hsg. looks to be original. So today,..I bought one of Rick Erinburghs A body axle bearing kits on ebay, so it wont arrive unit 5-15.I'll keep everyone posted once I remove that 1/8" spacer, get the new tapered bearings pressed on, and test fit.
 
Yes I can post a pic. Ok,...see the 1/8" spacer on the RT axle shaft? the LT axle shaft has a radiused finish to it. The spacer will spin around its not affixed.I'm thinking of removing this spacer, install new bearings and adjuster and test fit from square 1.
HR20

axle spacer 1.jpg


axle spacer 2.jpg


axle spacer 3.jpg
 
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The distance from the bearing journal to the end of the splines should measure 25.5".

That clutch sure-grip is also notorious for having shorter than stock thrust buttons AND wider than stock cross shafts.
 
I've never adjusted like that. I fully seat the driver's side. That gets ALL the axle play to the passenger's side, where the adjuster is. Then I carefully pull out on the passenger's side axle and VERY carefully push in so AS NOT TO DISTURB the driver's side axle. The distance between where the passenger axle bottoms WITHOUT pushing the driver's side axle back out and pulled all the way out is the end play. That's the whole purpose of tapping the driver's side axle IN, to get all of the play on one side where you can adjust it. If you fully seat the passenger's side axle after you fully seat the driver's side axle, you just "undid" what you were trying to accomplish and now all the play is back on the driver's side.
 
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Ok I got the axles back today with new bearings, I removed the 1/8" spacer from the pass side axle,and installed a new pass side adjuster. I will in stall them tonight...and report back.
Before I begin, can anyone tell me what side the steel flange gasket is supposed to be on with the raised rib ? the raised rib facing the axle flange side? or the raised rib facing the backing plate side? I need to know this before assembly. :)
Thanks.
Hotrod20
 
Amen & Alleluia !! Success!! axle end play problem solved:) heres the backtrack steps I took tonight.

1. Double checked both inner axle seals, I was able to tap them in just a slight amount more... until I had a firm and dead stop.
2 Packed new wheel bearings with good grease,and lightly greased bearing race surface
3. Inserted drivers side axle until flush,then tapped with a rubber mallet to firmly seat bearing.
4. Tightened all retainer nuts to 35 ft.lbs.
5. Next, Passenger side axle assy-packed wheel bearing and lightly greased bearing race surface.
6. Per FSM,- Fully open the adjuster(Counter Clockwise).
7. Insert axle into housing until flush,then tapp with rubber mallet to seat bearing.
8. Tightened all retainer nuts to 35 ft lbs.
9. Turn adjuster cog,(Clockwise) Fully seat until there was no end play on both axles.
10. Backed off adjuster cog (CounterClockwise) until end play could be felt without a dial indicator.
11. Checked with dial indicator.- Final readings after adjusting cog forward and backward (Clockwise & Counterclockwise) was about 010.
12. Remove one retainer nut and install the cog wheel lock tab. Retorque to 35 ft lbs.
13. Rechecked with dial indicator. About .012 end play.
14. Checked driver side axle end play and its perfect!!.Lol...No 1/8" end play now!!
15. I did remove the 1/8" spacer on the pass side axle prior to having purchased brand new tapered bearings, axle adjuster assembly,and seals installed.Contacted previous owner and he too had no history on why there was a spacer installed at some point on these Dutchman axles. And for future reference these Dutchman axles are 28" in length for both sides.

Here's some food for thought,... if you ever buy aftermarket axles, purchase the access hole option like mopar had on their OEM axles. Trying to torque down retainer nuts with no access hole is a big PITA.

Rootcause's:
It looks like I had a multitude of worn parts here. Thankfully the axles fully seated in the new JEG's clutch style posi I purchased along with Gear Motive 3:73 gears.
Looking forward to the test drive and other future upgrades going forward.
Thanks to everyone who commented on this crazy issue over the last two weeks.!!
HotRod20
 
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