440 Source Cap/Girdle Install= Long Tedious Job

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RAMM

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Had another shop bring in a 440 block and the entire 440 source cap/girdle kit for me to install and machine. For those that don't know 440 Source makes their caps for the smaller main bearing diameter of the 383/400 --the rough bore is about 2.750" so to take that out to 2.940" is .190" of material to remove before the final process of line honing can be performed. I have a Sunnen PLB-100 which is a wonderfully simple attachment to the CH-100 Line hone but wow is it slow and tedious. Nevertheless the job went well but the time sure does add up. Each cap took 9 rough cuts followed by one finish cut. Then the chamfer bit is used and you carefully feed by hand into the edge of the cap to chamfer and deburr it. Once I was within .002" the girdle was installed/shimmed and then linehoned. All told I have close to 20 hrs in this puppy. Can you charge 20hrs? Of course not, so I charged half-but it is perfectly straight within .00025" and I doubt the centerline changed more than a thou. No shop near me seems to be able to perform line boring. Yes I did have to machine up 440 sized arbor "rings" so that took a couple hours that did not get charged. I made the secondary step 318 sized so I can do 440's or 318's with the same set. It was worth it in the end I think? J.Rob

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Worth it in the end??

Sounds like it was for the customer, not so much for you.

I try not to get involved with long tidious jobs........ where I get to give away 1/2 the labor.

You said yourself, no one near you can do it. Why give it away?
It’s not like you’re charging for work you haven’t done.

The guy I used to rent shop space from here, moved to Va and has a very nicely equipped shop.
When that oddball stuff shows up at the door...... he tells them right up front.... it’s “by the hour”.
He’s always busy....... if he’s not going to make the hourly rate on some job no one else wants to do....... he’ll just work on a different job that will pay the hourly rate.

At least you’ve got this one under your belt and know what’s involved if another one shows up.

No way I’d be giving away 1/2 my time.
 
RAMM, your gona have " click click click clik clik clik" going through your head tonight!
 
I think i might have bolted the 1 and 2, and 4 and 5 caps together, and hogged out a bunch of excess metal in a mill.
I'm sure your technique is more accurate.
 
PRH said:
Worth it in the end??

Sounds like it was for the customer, not so much for you.

I try not to get involved with long tidious jobs........ where I get to give away 1/2 the labor.

You said yourself, no one near you can do it. Why give it away?
It’s not like you’re charging for work you haven’t done.

The guy I used to rent shop space from here, moved to Va and has a very nicely equipped shop.
When that oddball stuff shows up at the door...... he tells them right up front.... it’s “by the hour”.
He’s always busy....... if he’s not going to make the hourly rate on some job no one else wants to do....... he’ll just work on a different job that will pay the hourly rate.

At least you’ve got this one under your belt and know what’s involved if another one shows up.

No way I’d be giving away 1/2 my time.
Click to expand...

I understand Dwayne, usually I'm like that but this job was for my old employer and I'm trying to leave him some room and he also has a delivery truck on the road that he helps me out with pick ups and drop offs from time to time. And yes now I know exactly what's involved for the next one. J.Rob
 
33IMP said:
I think i might have bolted the 1 and 2, and 4 and 5 caps together, and hogged out a bunch of excess metal in a mill.
I'm sure your technique is more accurate.
Click to expand...

Totally agree and I did think about this--next time I will bolt them together and interpolate them on the mill and leave something like .030" stock. I just really didn't want to mess this up and ruin the block or the caps because who knows how long to get more? J.Rob
 
RAMM said:
Had another shop bring in a 440 block and the entire 440 source cap/girdle kit for me to install and machine. For those that don't know 440 Source makes their caps for the smaller main bearing diameter of the 383/400 --the rough bore is about 2.750" so to take that out to 2.940" is .190" of material to remove before the final process of line honing can be performed. I have a Sunnen PLB-100 which is a wonderfully simple attachment to the CH-100 Line hone but wow is it slow and tedious. Nevertheless the job went well but the time sure does add up. Each cap took 9 rough cuts followed by one finish cut. Then the chamfer bit is used and you carefully feed by hand into the edge of the cap to chamfer and deburr it. Once I was within .002" the girdle was installed/shimmed and then linehoned. All told I have close to 20 hrs in this puppy. Can you charge 20hrs? Of course not, so I charged half-but it is perfectly straight within .00025" and I doubt the centerline changed more than a thou. No shop near me seems to be able to perform line boring. Yes I did have to machine up 440 sized arbor "rings" so that took a couple hours that did not get charged. I made the secondary step 318 sized so I can do 440's or 318's with the same set. It was worth it in the end I think? J.Rob

View attachment 1715750479

View attachment 1715750480
Click to expand...

Why use the wrong caps to start with ?
 
bob mCcarty said:
Why use the wrong caps to start with ?
Click to expand...

440 Source only makes them in the 383/400 size with a very deep bearing tang notch with the intention of them being bored out to 440 size. Believe me I checked-I thought the guy ordered the wrong caps too. J.Rob
 
RAMM said:
440 Source only makes them in the 383/400 size with a very deep bearing tang notch with the intention of them being bored out to 440 size. Believe me I checked-I thought the guy ordered the wrong caps too. J.Rob
Click to expand...

could they not be bought some where else , like hughs engines ? he could of returned them to 440 source , and saved u a bunch of trouble = at ur expense .
'' just thinking outloud ''
 
bob mCcarty said:
could they not be bought some where else , like hughs engines ? he could of returned them to 440 source , and saved u a bunch of trouble = at ur expense .
'' just thinking outloud ''
Click to expand...

Like I said-this was a job that was dropped off and I was told to do, I made my old boss aware at the time of drop off as I noticed the cap bores looked small-grabbed my calipers and said hey these are 383/400 size this is almost .200" to remove. Again I was told to proceed. Sometimes you win some and sometimes you lose some--it all balances out in the end. J.Rob
 
RAMM said:
Like I said-this was a job that was dropped off and I was told to do, I made my old boss aware at the time of drop off as I noticed the cap bores looked small-grabbed my calipers and said hey these are 383/400 size this is almost .200" to remove. Again I was told to proceed. Sometimes you win some and sometimes you lose some--it all balances out in the end. J.Rob
Click to expand...

hope u got paid for it , good machinists are getting harder to find !
 
bob mCcarty said:
hope u got paid for it , good machinists are getting harder to find !
Click to expand...

Yeah he's good for it-He's 80 years old with a successful Parts/Auto Repair/Machine Shop business still going strong-pretty sure hes a millionaire a few times over. J.Rob
 
Boy do I understand. That kind of crap goes on around here all the time. But we are getting better at charging for it sometimes. I'm the big problem because I'm always into some kind of new experiment.
 
RAMM said:
Had another shop bring in a 440 block and the entire 440 source cap/girdle kit for me to install and machine. For those that don't know 440 Source makes their caps for the smaller main bearing diameter of the 383/400 --the rough bore is about 2.750" so to take that out to 2.940" is .190" of material to remove before the final process of line honing can be performed. I have a Sunnen PLB-100 which is a wonderfully simple attachment to the CH-100 Line hone but wow is it slow and tedious. Nevertheless the job went well but the time sure does add up. Each cap took 9 rough cuts followed by one finish cut. Then the chamfer bit is used and you carefully feed by hand into the edge of the cap to chamfer and deburr it. Once I was within .002" the girdle was installed/shimmed and then linehoned. All told I have close to 20 hrs in this puppy. Can you charge 20hrs? Of course not, so I charged half-but it is perfectly straight within .00025" and I doubt the centerline changed more than a thou. No shop near me seems to be able to perform line boring. Yes I did have to machine up 440 sized arbor "rings" so that took a couple hours that did not get charged. I made the secondary step 318 sized so I can do 440's or 318's with the same set. It was worth it in the end I think? J.Rob

View attachment 1715750479

View attachment 1715750480
Click to expand...

It's nice to see somebody actually knows how to do this job correctly. Too many people think you have to have a shorter timing chain when you line bore one and it's just not true. Nice work!
 
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