circle track cam

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klcalhoon

klcalhoon

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Beloit, KS
Hello,
Trying to find the best cam for our build. We run IMCA modified (dirt, cirlce track) class and need to calm our mopar down to run with these 604 crate engines. Looking for info or someone who can point us in the right direction. We are limited on tires. Right now we can out run any one on hammer down tracks but we spin the tires coming off the corner when it slicks off with what we have today.
car weighs 2450 lbs.
360 block with .030 flat top pistons. 10: 1 compression, stock crank, ported w2's. 1.6 roller rockers, 1 3/4 headers. 750 cfm alcohol carb, brinn transmission.
Searching for a flat tappet cam with a smooth power band from 2000-6000 rpms.
From what research I have found the 360 magnum crate sounds similar to what I think I’m looking for but not allowed to run roller cams.
Thanks for your thoughts!

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Welcome! I have no experience with what you are asking for but I think it's neat you're running a Mopar in the sea of Brand X mud. Just a thought; what if you limited throttle opening? Great problem to have though, way more power than the tires can handle.
 
Not sure if this can help. But I was talking to one of the reps at Hughes engines about a cam for a motor similar to yours. He mentioned the had a solid dirt track cam that someone ordered never picked up. Might be worth asking about it. They wanted to move it.
 
abdywgn said:
Welcome! I have no experience with what you are asking for but I think it's neat you're running a Mopar in the sea of Brand X mud. Just a thought; what if you limited throttle opening? Great problem to have though, way more power than the tires can handle.
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we have exhausted every alternative from fattening up the the carb to take power away, slowing down idle, retarding the timing 2 degrees... all that did was delay the point to where the tires spin. this is the same cam from our "big motor" which is why we think its the cam. we put this combo together to mimmick the 604 crate. which is a 355 with aluminum heads and a roller cam.
 
SSOOO, you're saying that a GM crate NEEDS a monster cam to make HP? whereas the Mopar engine with the same type cam makes even more? he-he-he.
sorry, being sarcastic and no help for the posters question...but thanks for the answer!
 
Have you tried a different tire? If you could get it to hook, that would be the biggest ticket, since you're obviously out powering everybody else. If you could get it to the ground, you could waste the competition. If you're dead set on a camshaft change, what I recommend is maybe calling someone at Crower. They've always been cutting edge and I believe you'll have better and a less of a "cookie cutter" approach than someone like Comp.
 
I have a Bullet solid with edm lifters that would probably work for you. Its 240@50--.550 lift or close to that. I have to look for cam card. worked well in my modified I am no longer racing that class.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Have you tried a different tire? If you could get it to hook, that would be the biggest ticket, since you're obviously out powering everybody else. If you could get it to the ground, you could waste the competition. If you're dead set on a camshaft change, what I recommend is maybe calling someone at Crower. They've always been cutting edge and I believe you'll have better and a less of a "cookie cutter" approach than someone like Comp.
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Spec tire rule I would guess.

I would call Mike Jones @ Jones Cams in NC. He ground my kid's MWM cam and it was dynamite (SBC). His stuff usually looks smaller on paper than the other guys cams. Sometime morons like me will disagree with his cam suggestions than realize he knows more than we do. He has a proprietory cam software and his cams use some nice, ez ramps and he uses a small 8" wheel to grind them...

He did a cam for my SLM engine (383 SBM, ported W-2's, 3.79 stroke) and I will be using that when I screw my motor together. I also have a bit hotter Howard's cam in my toolbox... hope to do an A/B comparison this winter.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Have you tried a different tire? If you could get it to hook, that would be the biggest ticket, since you're obviously out powering everybody else. If you could get it to the ground, you could waste the competition. If you're dead set on a camshaft change, what I recommend is maybe calling someone at Crower. They've always been cutting edge and I believe you'll have better and a less of a "cookie cutter" approach than someone like Comp.
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our class is forced to run a G60 hoosier which is primarily made of plastic. It doesnt even have a durometer rating on their website. thanks for your help! Crower or Racer Brown, will be our next call.
 
can you hook up a "tire cleaning" spray that sprays adhesive in the tire? only kidding...but it would work on the Saturday AM cartoons.
 
klcalhoon said:
we have exhausted every alternative from fattening up the the carb to take power away, slowing down idle, retarding the timing 2 degrees... all that did was delay the point to where the tires spin. this is the same cam from our "big motor" which is why we think its the cam. we put this combo together to mimmick the 604 crate. which is a 355 with aluminum heads and a roller cam.
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What about a gear change?
 
klcalhoon said:
our class is forced to run a G60 hoosier which is primarily made of plastic. It doesnt even have a durometer rating on their website. thanks for your help! Crower or Racer Brown, will be our next call.
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Absolutely. Jim is a genius. And Jones cams is also another good choice. Just anyone but Comp......and you COULD call them IF you could get the right person. Chances of that are slim.
 
The 360s on dirt can be that way, on some tracks, the shorter stroke combo (340) can have a more manageable torque curve.... they used to make spacers to put the 3.31 stroke crank in the 360 block, not sure if they are available anymore
 
Okay I really don't know didly squad about dirt track racing but what if you thought about it the other way and actually went to a peakier cam that was softer coming out of the corners and developed more power as the RPM range increased softening up the torque curve or just moving it up the RPM range a little, definitely not a suggestion but a question.
 
klcalhoon said:
we have a quick change rear end and gears and have fine tuned that aspect as well! gets too doggy and cant bring out of a push in certain situations.
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Have you tried "softening" the tire; years ago I knew you could buy a rubber softening compound, or is that "outside" of the rules. My neighbor races a Dirt modified here in New York, I hang with them and freely admit I know diddly about tires and I get the fact you are on a spec tire. Can you move weight?
 
Another idea.......retard the cam, switch to 1.5 rockers......might help you hook coming off the turns
 
The biggest detriment to traction is the lack of track prep today.

The guys running the crate motors dont have the power to run with the open motors so they cry when the track is hammer down. The promoters dont water as much as they used to. Creates a shiney, glassy dry slick track that favors momentum over traction.

Then there is spring rates, shock valving, jbar adjustments, 5th coil rates etc and it isnt as simple as it once was.

While most modifieds have a shock rule (maybe $300/each), our super lates may have $20,000 worth of shocks in the trailer and spring smasher that allows minute changes to be made to the shocks and have a graph printer out right in the pits. One shock is $2,000.00!

The UMP sanction has let things get way outta control in all their classes and I know of mods that are making 700HP plus and hooking it up. A new rolling chassis can be $30K. One of my friends bought a complete "A mod" three years ago and the rumor was he handed over a $40,000 bill to pay for it and it is a 604 crate car not an open engine.

I would start talking to the chassis mfg. and shock guys before I would mess with the engine. What chassis are you running?

BTW... thanks for keeping the Mopar name alive in your area... IF I get mine on the track next season I will be the only Mopar powered super late model in WI!
 
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Krooser said:
The biggest detriment to traction is the lack of track prep today.

The guys running the crate motors dont have the power to run with the open motors so they cry when the track is hammer down. The promoters dont water as much as they used to. Creates a shiney, glassy dry slick track that favors momentum over traction.

Then there is spring rates, shock valving, jbar adjustments, 5th coil rates etc and it isnt as simple as it once was.

While most modifieds have a shock rule (maybe $300/each), our super lates may have $20,000 worth of shocks in the trailer and spring smasher that allows minute changes to be made to the shocks and have a graph printer out right in the pits. One shock is $2,000.00!

The UMP sanction has let things get way outta control in all their classes and I know of mods that are making 700HP plus and hooking it up. A new rolling chassis can be $30K. One of my friends bought a complete "A mod" three years ago and the rumor was he handed over a $40,000 bill to pay for it and it is a 604 crate car not an open engine.

I would start talking to the chassis mfg. and shock guys before I would mess with the engine. What chassis are you running?

BTW... thanks for keeping the Mopar name alive in your area... IF I get mine on the track next season I will be the only Mopar powered super late model in WI!
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thanks for all help and info. Running a 2019 BMS chassis. There’s a lot of adjustments that go into one but we have won races before this engine, and it is one of many motor combinations (even a 604 crate). Just looking to see if I’m missing something as the far as the cam to keep this mopar from setting in the corner. It is truly sickening to me what the 604 does to completely change the car. And surely there is something in the mopar world that can be comparable. the 360 magnum crate is the closest I have found as far as Smooth power bands.
 
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JBurch said:
Have you tried "softening" the tire; years ago I knew you could buy a rubber softening compound, or is that "outside" of the rules. My neighbor races a Dirt modified here in New York, I hang with them and freely admit I know diddly about tires and I get the fact you are on a spec tire. Can you move weight?
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Tire dope doesnt help as there’s not enough rubber to soften it
Krooser said:
You running USRA rules?
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Imca modified rules
 
I don't get the alky carb in a crate/built motor class but can you run a 4412HP ?

that'll take some HP away and give a smoother pedal feel and delivery of power.. i.e. - more drivable of the corner on a slick track.

jus sayin'
 
I'm sure you and your cars are as one.......as in, you pay little attention to the tachometer. What i'm saying is that you need to disconnect from the race, and know exactly at what rpm it spins! What rpm you were to slow and it didn't come out of the corner spinning because you were below the power band. What rpm range your are in most of the time.

When you call a cam grinder, you want to be ready to answer all of his question, from the grinder perspective.

Same thing with the chassis.
Just before it spins, what is the chassis doing. Is it trying to pick up the left front tire, is it body rolling, or is the body doing anything harsh.........

I know NOTHING about dirt track racing or paved for that matter. But i bet if you get somebody to tune your chassis, you won't need a cam change.

Think about this. when you have a street car with a open diff and a one tire fryer.
Do you get 50% better traction with a locking differential..........the tire with the least amount of traction is the one that is spinning. So, NO you get a lot more the 50% more traction.

To put this in your wheel house.
What if it is spinning out of the corner because you chassis needs some adj that put more weight on the rear tire that goes light coming out of the corner.
I have no idea your chassis skills or you crew, not trying to offend any body. Just something to chew on and think about.

As the ol'saying goes. there is more then one way to skin a cat.
 
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