I just saw this post thanks for sharing. That makes more sense than anything iv read before and I completely agree. I was using 318willruns method of timing setting, basically he just keeps bumping up his timing at idle till the idle no longer increases or it stops idling smooth. Then backs it off 2 to 4 degrees which landed me at 20 degrees. I got all the way up to 24 degrees before it stopped increasing. And it seemed to run really good there. So using MVA I could set my initial at lets say 10* intial and using mva id be back at 24* during idle. Until the engine is under load. I guess im just gonna have to play around with it different ways and see what my engine likes. I appreciate all the help I have a much better understanding of the difference now!