Putting up a shop in CA - fire department being a pain
How have I ever survived here in Tx. or Mo.? Rural volunteer fire department, old (ancient) equipment, NO hydrants, no silly fees and BS costs, redneck firefighters... how in the heck do they ever put out a fire? :BangHead:
They don't, not at the level of a professional department with modern equipment.
I was a volunteer in a rural area for several years before I became a professional paid firefighter. To put it simply, we could not meet the NFPA standards for responding to structure fires for the vast majority of our response area. Respond from home, to the fire station to pick up the engine, then respond to the call. Even getting to the fire within 10 minutes would have been good for us in a lot of situations.
At the 10 minute mark, if you didn't get out of your house on your own you're dead. Your home is well involved, and unless multiple engines show up at that time to provide a continuous water supply and multiple hose lines there will be no chance at saving whatever remains of that structure. It will be a foundation scrape. For a medical aid, well, if your heart isn't beating and no one is doing CPR for 10 minutes you're done. I've responded to both as a volunteer, and the timeline just makes it impossible. Yes, most volunteers will get there fast enough to save the neighborhood, but they're not getting there fast enough with enough resources to save you or your home.
Meanwhile, at my paid municipal department, we're getting to 80%+ of our calls in 5 minutes
or less. That stove top fire hasn't even left the kitchen, anyone in the house is still doing ok and grandma in the back bedroom in the wheelchair hasn't even noticed yet. A single engine can knock that fire out in a couple minutes. You get out of the whole thing with a kitchen remodel at the worst - instead of a tear down. And if it's a medical aid, and you dropped dead immediately after making the call, well, you're still a viable human being when we start CPR.
The volunteer department I used to work for is now mostly paid professional. They serve the area where I now live again. And yeah, when I built my shop there was a fee for the fire department. And yes, when I pay my property taxes there's a yearly fee for their service. And it's MORE than worth the improvement in the service they provide compared to what I did for them 20+ years ago.
Permit has been approved and construction can begin but I cannot get the final sign off until the county fire gives their approval. Which is odd because what happens if I get the building erected and the driveway doesn't pass the compaction test? I now have to tear it down?
Unless there is something else in the state's fire code (that cannot be found online for free), then I believe the bolded part below proves that they are implementing the fire code incorrectly against me. Problem is we're dealing with humans here. If I just walk in and show this to their subject matter expert, they aren't just going to say "hey you're right, we'll approve your plans right now". Their ego is going to push back on this because I'm essentially saying "you're wrong and I'm right". I need to find a tactful way of going about this when I go in there next week.
So far not a single geological engineering company will sign off on compaction testing certifying the dirt for 75k lbs. At minimum they want a compacted 4" gravel driveway put in and a couple companies want 10" of compacted gravel before they'll do the test.
Here's what I found on their code appendix page:
Driveways
Driveways for access to one- and two-family dwellings, shall conform to the following criteria as applicable:
1. Driveways serving one parcel with no more than five structures shall be a minimum of twelve (12) feet in width. The chief may require up to a twenty (20) foot wide driveway when more than five structures exist.
2. Roadways serving more than one parcel, but less than five parcels, shall be a minimum twenty (20) feet in width. Roadways serving five parcels or more shall be no less than 24 feet in width.
3. Vertical clearance shall be a minimum of fifteen (15) feet.
4. When the driveway exceeds 150 feet in length, provide a turnout at the midpoint. For driveways not exceeding 400 feet in length, the turnout may be omitted if full sight distance is maintained. If the driveway exceeds 800 feet in length, turnouts shall be no more than 400 feet apart.
5. When a driveway exceeds 300 feet in length, a turnaround shall be provided no greater than 50 feet from the structure.
6. The driveway must be provided with an all-weather surface capable of supporting a 75,000 lb. vehicle loading. When the road grade exceeds ten (10) percent, the road shall be surfaced with asphalt or concrete.
It seems to me, the way I read that code, is it shouldn't apply to your shop as long as your shop can't be considered living space. How that gets determined may be part of the issue, I don't know what you've got in your shop (bathroom, etc) that could allow it to be considered living space.
Again, I would figure out a way to have a sit down with the fire inspector that's requiring the 75k lb loading. I could understand having to now meet that requirement for your house, because you're pulling the permit for your shop and it probably meets the threshold to meet modern code vs when your house was built. But unless there's something else as far as requirements go it shouldn't be necessary all the way back to your shop. Again, that's just based on the section you posted.
I would approach it not from a "you're wrong" standpoint, but just ask why it is that the requirement is being applied to the entire driveway vs just the section that allows access to your dwelling.
If I could just sign a waiver that states if my shop goes up in flames, then oh well, I'd do it.
Sure, who wouldn't? But it's not about just your shop going up in flames. Because where you're at, your shop going up in flames could easily start a wildland fire that could have your entire neighborhood go up in flames. Would you like to be on the hook financially for that?