its funny you guys say that about the z-bar. a friends car has tti's from like 2000, and they only barely hit the z-bar but still give alot of travel. they are great headers though. for a street car that needs ground clearance, they seem to be best choice. although i need to see for myself a pair of dougs and hooker sc just to see how they fit the same car. i have heard positive and negative feedback on all 3.