just say YES! to MSD

I ran an experiment on my Dart. I added the MSD box right next to the stock one so I could plug in either one at any time.
I tuned the original box, set Carb and timing with a vacuum gauge and drove the car a litttle. Then switched to the MSD box and connected the vacuum gauge again.
What a difference! The vacuum needle steadied completely. I was able to lean the carb and raise the vacuum to 18+ at idle. Steady needle and smooooth idle.
Drove the car and found it was much easier to start and seemed smoother throttle response too.


The engine is a 360 w/edddie 600, K6901 cam, and 302 heads. I think I am finished tweaking til I find some money for parts.

Must be a problem with the ign you were using. We ran the MP orange box on my sons Dart and ran 11.60's the first time out with the 400. He switched to the MSD and ran 11.60's the next time out with it. It ran good and started great with the MP setup. And it ran no better with the MSD. It did go 11.50's later but for us the MSD was no better then the MP orange box. Ron

383man said:

Must be a problem with the ign you were using. We ran the MP orange box on my sons Dart and ran 11.60's the first time out with the 400. He switched to the MSD and ran 11.60's the next time out with it. It ran good and started great with the MP setup. And it ran no better with the MSD. It did go 11.50's later but for us the MSD was no better then the MP orange box. Ron

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I never tried an Orange box. I do have two of Don's FBO boxes though, I may swap to one of those and try it.
I had a problem that took 2 years to find. The darn molded plug on the hrness was intermittant. Even the Electrical shop missed it. I found it by accident one night.The plug on the harness was not put together right and if you tightened the screw the car wouldn't start.Leave the screw out and every now and then no start. Then go out Saturday and it fires right up.
Old history, but something for the guys to check if they have some probs.

The MSD is nicer down low on idle and low RPM cruise. If your car has real Hwy. gears and cruises under the 3,000 RPM mark, your going to get better mileage. Noticeable increase!
After that, I have also noted little difference in ignition boxs in a MPG arena. More testing to come.

You nailed Rumble! I am running the real high gears.
More testing to come for me too! :book:

Betcha it puts on a solid 3 miles per gallon.
Gap the plugs wide till it drops off.

I didn't mean to sound like I was putting down MSD. It works great and will fire some plugs that would be fouled with normal ign. I just meant that it did not make my boys mid 11 second car any faster or start and idle better like so many say. I guess I meant that if you have a good ign in a mild street car it may not help it go any faster but by all means the faster you get the more you will need it. Ron

Thanks for the reply..we all are here to help each other so ANY reply is appreciated.
I have the MSD and an FBO box side by side under the hood. I can plug either one in very easily. I will be doing some home tests and tuning to see which one my combo likes best. I am from the old school and I am slow to learn. I like to try things others talk against, I built my engine MY way after listening to alot of very smart guys tell me about theirs.
Thank you for being honest

I agree we are here to help out each other with this cool hobby. And I will be very interested to see how it works out for you. Good luck , Ron

There's more to the ignition system than just the control box, have you considered that CD and ECU systems operate their best with 2 different types of coils....

The MSD is a great system, $200+, it should have a coil designed for a CD ignition system, that's why we developed the FBO CD Ignition coil. The FBO Box $65.00 won't operate to it's maximum potential with a stock or Blaster 2 coil, the FBO G642 Coil provided in the kit is a special Coil designed just for the FBO ECU.

If your using the FBO Coil with the CD ignition system it will pump out 40-44KV but it's life will be short, with the FBO box it will deliver 34-38KV and last for years. Given un-ballasted power at 13.4V it'll deliever 38-42KV for racing applications but it'll get real hot after about 1-2 hours of continuous driving on the street.

Our testing showed that all the engines we ran did not improve with anything over 34KV. Now I'm sure there are exceptions to that rule as we didn't test any Pro Stock or top fuel engines, we conducted our tests on engines that we would typically see on the street or in the Sportsman and Pro Bracket lanes at the track.

We also discovered that the widest gap on the plugs possible was not always the best, fluctuations in the dyno graphs started happening at the wider gaps.

You have to know more how an ignition system works to understand power outputs and how it affects flame front ignition. You can gap the plugs at .100 and take a reading at the plug and it'll show 44KV, now gap them at .050 and it'll show 32KV. this test is only to determine what voltage the system can actually push in order to jump the spark between the electrode and the ground strap.

The lower the resistance in the system the lower the output reading you'll get. The only real way to test the capability of the system is to use a high pressure tank at about 1500 PSI, gap the plugs correctly and spin the ignition to about 7-8000 RPM that's about as close we can get without strapping your butt to a fender and making a pass holding the Output meter.

One more note, the CD systems are multi spark only up to 3000 RPM then they switch to single spark just like an ECU. This is mostly to help with a engine with a huge cam low compression and a bad tune-up, it'll bandaid the issues by virtually blow torching the combustion chamber with spark to get the fuel to ignite.

I have the FBO kit .. I also have the MSD with a Blaster coil and a stock ECU.
I had a breakdown on the side of the road and I beat up the FBO box trying to get the car started.

I sent my FBO box in to be tested because the car would not start. The car starts fine with the MSD box and the stock ecu unit. Very strange, Don says it is my wiring. I am waiting to get the FBO box back to re-try it. I still have the FBO coil and Dist cap and rotor.
Please don't take this as a complaint against Don or his FBO setup,I have no complaints with anything he is associated with. He is a stand up guy who still believes in a handshake. :thumblef:

that's about as close we can get without strapping your butt to a fender and making a pass holding the Output meter.

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I'll do it, I'll do it.

usdart, I have had a very similar issue with the Mopar boxs in the same instance. My biggest single best working idea so far was to rid myself of the MSD period. My luck has been terrible to say the least, but back to what I was saying.
When I wired in both systems, MoPar box upgrade first followed by the MSD, or MSD box with the stock wireing ignition there first, the switch over back to the Mopar ignition needed to be tweaked in timing a tad to get it just so. They need there own set point to work best.

I gotta agree with Don and state it over again here. The MSD will "Band-Aid" patch a weakness in the car from start to finish or air cleaner to tail pipe.
If you can dial in a car right without it and get the car running great , the MSD will be nice, not a band aid.

I have a set of underhood wiring on the way. I am going to lay it out in the garage floor and go over it and repair and clean and re-wrap and mark as needed.
I want my FBO back :sad2:

Wow! Iv'e been trying to learn and decide what to do for an ignition upgrade with the orange box or MSD and a new distributor. I learned alot by reading your posts but now I'm confused too. This is the fun of it though! - JD

The orange box is good for stock engines. headers and 4bbl upgrades are fine additions, small cam OK, but would stop there.
Chrome box or FBO unit are very good for a mile to hot motor set up.
A Gold box is a race only unit and would skip it in most cases in favor of modern set ups.
The MSD 6 boxs, though I have had teribble times with them are fine for stock to lil'wild set ups. It can take your car far.