“What I Learned Today” With Jeff Smith — Ethanol Isn’t The Bad Guy

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A56

A56

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Today, everyone blames the alcohol (ethanol) in our pump gasoline as the root cause of everybody’s fuel system problems. Tests have revealed that the levels of aromatics (which are nasty chemical ethers) now used in nearly all pump gasoline are the real cause of these failures — not the alcohol.

To illustrate this point, pour straight alcohol (like rubbing alcohol or even Jim Beam) in a Styrofoam cup and let it sit for hours. Nothing will happen. Pour an ounce or two of regular pump gasoline in one of these cups and see what happens. Don’t hold the cup over anything you care about because you will get wet as the fuel will instantaneously melt the Styrofoam.
Toluene is one of the milder aromatics used in pump gasoline. Typical pump gasoline can contain as much as 25-percent (!) aromatics which are these ether-based chemicals. These are generally referred to as BETX – which stands for Benzene, Ethylbenzene, Toluene, and Xylene. These are nasty chemicals and are the real culprits traced to attacking carburetors and fuel systems suffering from corrosion issues.

What’s worse, when combusted, BTEX chemicals create what are called ultra-fine particles (UFP). These particulates are so small that they can travel past the membrane in your lungs and directly enter into your bloodstream and possibly lead to cancer and other blood-related health problems.

So when someone tells you that ethanol is the cause of your fuel system problems, clue them into the issues around BTEX and what is really happening. Ethanol may contribute a small amount of water to the fuel and this can create a corrosive environment, but these BTEX chemicals are the real bad actors in pump gasoline.
 
so would it be "healthier" to run E85? although I read where the exhaust from that reacts with your brain and you "feel" drunk. I know that is not worded correctly, but that is the jist of what I had read. and, yes,benzene is a carcinogenic.
 
Thanks for that, learned about BETX and the environment in College. Didnt realize fuel had the levels in it that it does.
 
I have rubber items in my fuel system, no styrofoam...

Same as type of example putting a tooth in Coke for a few days. Know anyone with a mouthful of coke that long. Everything in context.

Which attacks the rubber? That's the pressing item. Needle and seat O-rings shrinking, etc.

No doubt the chemicals in fuel can be nasty.
 
Sorry, BETX might be a problem, but that does not mean that ethanol is not a problem. Unless you have switched to a sealed system like a modern FI system, then your system is vented to atmospheric air. Ethanol is hydrophilic and binds to moisture in the air. left in your carb, which is also vented, the gasoline (lacking the stabilizers that were standard back in the day) evaporates more quickly than the ethanol, leaving water laden ethanol in the fuel bowl, and elsewhere and this results in the interior of aluminum based carbs developing a whitish glop (that's a technical term) that then plugs things up and fouls up the function. The best treatments for ethanol mix gas bind with the ethanol more readily than water and the result is something that doesn't leave deposits in the carb.

I believe that the alcohol in your experiment would do the same thing (absorb water from the air), but it beats me as to how you measure that.

No I'm not a chemist - this is how a chemist and a chemical engineer explained it to me.
 
Gasoline has melted styrofoam since it was invented. That part is not new.
 
A56 said:
To illustrate this point, pour straight alcohol (like rubbing alcohol or even Jim Beam) in a Styrofoam cup and let it sit for hours. Nothing will happen. Pour an ounce or two of regular pump gasoline in one of these cups and see what happens. Don’t hold the cup over anything you care about because you will get wet as the fuel will instantaneously melt the Styrofoam.
Toluene is one of the milder aromatics used in pump gasoline. Typical pump gasoline can contain as much as 25-percent (!) aromatics which are these ether-based chemicals. These are generally referred to as BETX – which stands for Benzene, Ethylbenzene, Toluene, and Xylene. These are nasty chemicals and are the real culprits traced to attacking carburetors and fuel systems suffering from corrosion issues.
Click to expand...

Class is in. I am your instructor. I have a degree in chemistry and worked in the aerospace industry for 35 years.
The two alcohols that you mention will not cause any change to styrofoam. Aromatics will dissolve styrofoam because the styrofoam chemical structure is made using an aromatic based polymer. A general rule in chemistry is that “like dissolves like” so therefore alcohols will not dissolve the cup but aromatics will.
Short chain alcohols such as methanol, ethanol, butanol, and iso-propyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol) contain Carbon, Hydrogen, and Oxygen atoms. They are HYDROPHILLIC (water seeking) and will bond with water because of the presence of a Oxygen-Hydrogen group (called hydroxyl).
Benzene, Toluene, Xylene, and Ethylbenzene do not contain any ether linkages and are NOT ether-based chemicals. They only contain Carbon and Hydrogen atoms (hydrocarbons) and are HYDROPHOBIC (water rejecting) as @str12-340 correctly pointed out. Aromatics will not absorb water because they do not contain any hydroxyl group(s).
Water and gasoline do not mix. Water is heavier (denser) than gasoline. Fuel storage tanks, such as the ones used in gas stations, typically have a low area on the bottom of the tank to allow any water entrained in the fuel to settle to the bottom where it can be removed.
Ethanol will mix with gasoline because the hydrocarbon end of the ethanol molecule is compatible even though the hydroxyl end is not.
The hydroxyl end of Ethanol will allow water to be suspended in the gasoline blend and to not drop out to the bottom of the container.
The addition of ethanol to gasoline caused the commonly used fuel hoses and gaskets to swell.
The presence of rust in fuel systems is due to the presence of water and not the presence of aromatics.

I have said enough.
Class dismissed.
 
4spdragtop said:
Thanks for that, learned about BETX and the environment in College. Didnt realize fuel had the levels in it that it does.
Click to expand...
The levels of BETX were increased as was ethanol when lead was no longer used as an octane booster.
 
I left some E10 in an open tin in my garage overnight. Next morning, water globules in the bottom. Re-did the test next night, same thing. E fuel is hygroscopic. Since your carb fuel bowl {& some fuel tanks} are vented to atmosphere, you may get corrosion. I didn't want to take the risk, so don't use E fuel in my vintage car.
 
I've used Carb Defender made by a company called Driven for the past 5 years on all of my carb cars and my ethanol gas problems disappeared... There really is no source for premium ethanol free gas in Western Washington. Thanks to Herb McCandless at his Carlisle workshop for the recommendation.
 
What I also learned today.....

Gas 2.jpg


This was 5 weeks ago here in CA. It is a dollar higher for gas and $1.50 more for diesel now.
 
Here is a link that goes with the OP.

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...-Ethanol-Papers.pdf?origin=publication_detail

The guy is focused on mostly low performance transportation and not high HP stuff, but I’m only about 30 pages in.

As I’ve said elsewhere we should be using 20-30% ethanol in pump gas. It would clean up emissions and 98% of the carb’d stuff out there wouldn’t even need a jet change.

If I was going max HP I would use race gas over ethanol or methanol. But for mass surface transportation and street/strip stuff running pump gas it should have more ethanol in it.
 
Also note the effect of high portions of Eth on the distillation curve.
fuel-distillation-2007-png.png


However this phenomenon can also be seen in the RFG testing of MTBE fuels even without the Eth.
Details of that graph and the other I made using the data from Durbin, et al. here Video of boiling point of fuel (ACE Optimal Blend Study 2007, Durbin et al CRC-E67)
 
str12-340 said:
I've used Carb Defender made by a company called Driven for the past 5 years on all of my carb cars and my ethanol gas problems disappeared... There really is no source for premium ethanol free gas in Western Washington. Thanks to Herb McCandless at his Carlisle workshop for the recommendation.
Click to expand...

There is a few gas stations in Vancouver/Portland. Also on the coast as most stations have for the boats.
 
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