15" wheel size for 60 Valiant

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mario03srt

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All,

I'm getting some 5x4 to 5x4.5 adapters for my 60 Valiant. Going to be keeping the stock drum brakes for now and going with some 15's in the front to match my rears. Can someone say what width and backspacing will work? A 5 1/2 inch width steel wheel? I have a 8 3/4 rear end with 15x8's. The front has some 13's on it as you can see in the pic. I don't like the look and want to fill up up the front wheel well. I have found some used steel wheels and believe that they are Mopar types.

Thanks,
Marion
1960 Valiant Front.JPG
 
You will be able to fill the front wheel arches easily. A 215-70-14 will be about the largest size you can go in in tire diameter (or 15"/16"/17" Wheel & tire equivalents) before needing to cut or trim the front lip of the fender to keep the tire from hitting. I cannot answer any backspacking questions for you as my 2 1/2 valiants all use stock SBP wheels. I used '67-'72 KH 4 Pistons discs and kept the 14" with smalls on my car.

Use this tool to help you out on your front tire size.

The rears will not care as much.
The sculpted quarter-panel lip follows the same shape as the tire (unlike the '63-76 Darts, for example, which have a flat top on the wheel opening that is not an arc). Just calculate backspace / offset so that you do not hit the spring with whatever wheel width you choose.
 
Ima thinking that adapters on the front is a bad idea. Especially so if you have the 9" front drums with the tiny wheelbearings. Those adapters are gonna put a lotta stress on the tiny outboard wheel-bearing. Plus, if you offset the wheels to the outside, this will increase your scrub radius , and that is gonna negatively impact your alignment. The usual result is a pull, and or wandering, and/or premature death of the tire treads.
On the front, you need to maintain the scrub radius.
Which means, that as the tire gets taller, it has to be brought inboard.

Ima thinking that a 245 would look really good in there, on an 8"rim. I'd get a custom wheel with a matching pattern to the current bolt pattern, no adapters. And I would go heavy on the backspace, and have a couple of hub-spacers on hand to fine tune the scrub radius. This may require longer wheel studs.

An 8" steel wheel actually measure 9 inches outside to outside, and so, a 4.5"backspace puts the mounting flange right in the center. However, that much backspace may put the wheel into the upper BJ at full droop. And, as the tire gets taller, the Scrub radius is moving outboard. So sooner or later, your car is gonna get nervous in straight-line driving.
So, if you intend to do a lotta hiway driving, I doubt you will be able to utilize an 8" wheel.

Thus, in your case, I suggest a 7" wheel with an inboard offset to the max, just before it hits the BJ, again 4.5 is likely a hair too much, so order spacers. This will position your scrub-radius better with a taller tire.
A 7" wheel will accept a tire in the range of 205>215, but in a 75 series might accept maybe a 225, which will be about 28 inches tall..

A 5.5 wheel will accept a 5.5 tread easily enough, which might have a 7" profile, which maths to 175mm. This will not get you much more than about 25.9 tall on a 15. For example, say you went 185/75-15, which could be ~25.9. You would have to experiment with tire pressure to get that tire to run flat on the road for a long tread life. On a standard-issue zero offset wheel, it's gonna wander at hiway speed. and, it may have the occasional pull around town, on less than dead-flat roads like well-worn asphalts. On concrete, it might be alright.

Just a reminder, if you run a bolt-pattern adapter on the front, this adds 1 inch to the offset, which has to be compensated for by a custom wheel, else you will have the mentioned alignment problems. and with a taller tire, the scrub radius will end up giving you steering quirks. I highly recommend not to do it. Especially if you have 9" brakes in the which that outer bearing is gonna take a chit-kicking. I have personally broken two of those spindles off with just stock wheels. When the spindle breaks, the wheel comes off with the drum , the car falls down and the wheel keeps going, usually wrecking the wheel house. and of course, you got no front brakes, which doesn't really matter, cuz the backing plate is digging a rut in the asphalt, until the car stops. If this happens in traffic, that runaway wheel is likely gonna do other damage to other cars.
 
Wow, I have never heard of the spindle breaking on these cars! That is crazy!
 
You will be able to fill the front wheel arches easily. A 215-70-14 will be about the largest size you can go in in tire diameter (or 15"/16"/17" Wheel & tire equivalents) before needing to cut or trim the front lip of the fender to keep the tire from hitting. I cannot answer any backspacking questions for you as my 2 1/2 valiants all use stock SBP wheels. I used '67-'72 KH 4 Pistons discs and kept the 14" with smalls on my car.

Use this tool to help you out on your front tire size.

The rears will not care as much.
The sculpted quarter-panel lip follows the same shape as the tire (unlike the '63-76 Darts, for example, which have a flat top on the wheel opening that is not an arc). Just calculate backspace / offset so that you do not hit the spring with whatever wheel width you choose.
Here is my '62 with the wheel/tires I mentioned:

The build is here if you are interested

The other "Ugly Ducking" that I own is here with 225 70 14's out back and 215-70-14's in the front
 

Ima thinking that adapters on the front is a bad idea. Especially so if you have the 9" front drums with the tiny wheelbearings. Those adapters are gonna put a lotta stress on the tiny outboard wheel-bearing. Plus, if you offset the wheels to the outside, this will increase your scrub radius , and that is gonna negatively impact your alignment. The usual result is a pull, and or wandering, and/or premature death of the tire treads.
On the front, you need to maintain the scrub radius.
Which means, that as the tire gets taller, it has to be brought inboard.

Ima thinking that a 245 would look really good in there, on an 8"rim. I'd get a custom wheel with a matching pattern to the current bolt pattern, no adapters. And I would go heavy on the backspace, and have a couple of hub-spacers on hand to fine tune the scrub radius. This may require longer wheel studs.

An 8" steel wheel actually measure 9 inches outside to outside, and so, a 4.5"backspace puts the mounting flange right in the center. However, that much backspace may put the wheel into the upper BJ at full droop. And, as the tire gets taller, the Scrub radius is moving outboard. So sooner or later, your car is gonna get nervous in straight-line driving.
So, if you intend to do a lotta hiway driving, I doubt you will be able to utilize an 8" wheel.

Thus, in your case, I suggest a 7" wheel with an inboard offset to the max, just before it hits the BJ, again 4.5 is likely a hair too much, so order spacers. This will position your scrub-radius better with a taller tire.
A 7" wheel will accept a tire in the range of 205>215, but in a 75 series might accept maybe a 225, which will be about 28 inches tall..

A 5.5 wheel will accept a 5.5 tread easily enough, which might have a 7" profile, which maths to 175mm. This will not get you much more than about 25.9 tall on a 15. For example, say you went 185/75-15, which could be ~25.9. You would have to experiment with tire pressure to get that tire to run flat on the road for a long tread life. On a standard-issue zero offset wheel, it's gonna wander at hiway speed. and, it may have the occasional pull around town, on less than dead-flat roads like well-worn asphalts. On concrete, it might be alright.

Just a reminder, if you run a bolt-pattern adapter on the front, this adds 1 inch to the offset, which has to be compensated for by a custom wheel, else you will have the mentioned alignment problems. and with a taller tire, the scrub radius will end up giving you steering quirks. I highly recommend not to do it. Especially if you have 9" brakes in the which that outer bearing is gonna take a chit-kicking. I have personally broken two of those spindles off with just stock wheels. When the spindle breaks, the wheel comes off with the drum , the car falls down and the wheel keeps going, usually wrecking the wheel house. and of course, you got no front brakes, which doesn't really matter, cuz the backing plate is digging a rut in the asphalt, until the car stops. If this happens in traffic, that runaway wheel is likely gonna do other damage to other cars.

Ima thinking that adapters on the front is a bad idea. Especially so if you have the 9" front drums with the tiny wheelbearings. Those adapters are gonna put a lotta stress on the tiny outboard wheel-bearing. Plus, if you offset the wheels to the outside, this will increase your scrub radius , and that is gonna negatively impact your alignment. The usual result is a pull, and or wandering, and/or premature death of the tire treads.
On the front, you need to maintain the scrub radius.
Which means, that as the tire gets taller, it has to be brought inboard.

Ima thinking that a 245 would look really good in there, on an 8"rim. I'd get a custom wheel with a matching pattern to the current bolt pattern, no adapters. And I would go heavy on the backspace, and have a couple of hub-spacers on hand to fine tune the scrub radius. This may require longer wheel studs.

An 8" steel wheel actually measure 9 inches outside to outside, and so, a 4.5"backspace puts the mounting flange right in the center. However, that much backspace may put the wheel into the upper BJ at full droop. And, as the tire gets taller, the Scrub radius is moving outboard. So sooner or later, your car is gonna get nervous in straight-line driving.
So, if you intend to do a lotta hiway driving, I doubt you will be able to utilize an 8" wheel.

Thus, in your case, I suggest a 7" wheel with an inboard offset to the max, just before it hits the BJ, again 4.5 is likely a hair too much, so order spacers. This will position your scrub-radius better with a taller tire.
A 7" wheel will accept a tire in the range of 205>215, but in a 75 series might accept maybe a 225, which will be about 28 inches tall..

A 5.5 wheel will accept a 5.5 tread easily enough, which might have a 7" profile, which maths to 175mm. This will not get you much more than about 25.9 tall on a 15. For example, say you went 185/75-15, which could be ~25.9. You would have to experiment with tire pressure to get that tire to run flat on the road for a long tread life. On a standard-issue zero offset wheel, it's gonna wander at hiway speed. and, it may have the occasional pull around town, on less than dead-flat roads like well-worn asphalts. On concrete, it might be alright.

Just a reminder, if you run a bolt-pattern adapter on the front, this adds 1 inch to the offset, which has to be compensated for by a custom wheel, else you will have the mentioned alignment problems. and with a taller tire, the scrub radius will end up giving you steering quirks. I highly recommend not to do it. Especially if you have 9" brakes in the which that outer bearing is gonna take a chit-kicking. I have personally broken two of those spindles off with just stock wheels. When the spindle breaks, the wheel comes off with the drum , the car falls down and the wheel keeps going, usually wrecking the wheel house. and of course, you got no front brakes, which doesn't really matter, cuz the backing plate is digging a rut in the asphalt, until the car stops. If this happens in traffic, that runaway wheel is likely gonna do other damage to other cars.
AJ,

Thanks for the detailed response, that was excellent. I want to up grade the front brakes to discs but I cant get that done any time soon. I am going to need a 15" inch rim setup eventually. So in my thinking and to satisfy my urge to delete the 13's on the front, I'm thinking I'll go ahead and get my wheel issue sorted out. The temporary setup would be a bp adapter and a 15" wheel. The car does not get driven much and I understand you concerns. The 9" brakes front brakes do suck and a legit 5x4.5 hub assy would be optimal. What do you think about the Wilwood disc brake conversion kit for this car? It looks straight forward to install and I can keep the front assy close to stock on this 60 "Valiant" when I move forward with the car.

Thanks,
Marion
 
Here is my '62 with the wheel/tires I mentioned:

The build is here if you are interested

The other "Ugly Ducking" that I own is here with 225 70 14's out back and 215-70-14's in the front
Looks real good. How difficult is it to find KH brake setups? Are they a direct fit? I will check out your build. I have had this car for a year and have been going over it quite a bit.

Thanks,
Marion
 
Measure the backspace of the 13s you have now. Now measure the thickness of the adapter. Add the two together for the backspace you need, then add any extra width you want to the outside.
It I were to guess:..... 15x6 (preferred imo) or 15x7 with at least 4 1/2+ bs. (either one. )
And then.... a 25" tall tire, or less.
Don't spend a bunch on the wheels, cause after you do the disc swap, they probably won't work.
Best course of action, in my opinion? Hold off on wheels/tires till you've done the disc swap. Id call Dr Diff for the brake swap. I've always felt Wilwood charges way too much for what you get. Big name, more money.
 
Last edited:
Ima thinking that adapters on the front is a bad idea. Especially so if you have the 9" front drums with the tiny wheelbearings. Those adapters are gonna put a lotta stress on the tiny outboard wheel-bearing. Plus, if you offset the wheels to the outside, this will increase your scrub radius , and that is gonna negatively impact your alignment. The usual result is a pull, and or wandering, and/or premature death of the tire treads.
On the front, you need to maintain the scrub radius.
Which means, that as the tire gets taller, it has to be brought inboard.

Ima thinking that a 245 would look really good in there, on an 8"rim. I'd get a custom wheel with a matching pattern to the current bolt pattern, no adapters. And I would go heavy on the backspace, and have a couple of hub-spacers on hand to fine tune the scrub radius. This may require longer wheel studs.

An 8" steel wheel actually measure 9 inches outside to outside, and so, a 4.5"backspace puts the mounting flange right in the center. However, that much backspace may put the wheel into the upper BJ at full droop. And, as the tire gets taller, the Scrub radius is moving outboard. So sooner or later, your car is gonna get nervous in straight-line driving.
So, if you intend to do a lotta hiway driving, I doubt you will be able to utilize an 8" wheel.

Thus, in your case, I suggest a 7" wheel with an inboard offset to the max, just before it hits the BJ, again 4.5 is likely a hair too much, so order spacers. This will position your scrub-radius better with a taller tire.
A 7" wheel will accept a tire in the range of 205>215, but in a 75 series might accept maybe a 225, which will be about 28 inches tall..

A 5.5 wheel will accept a 5.5 tread easily enough, which might have a 7" profile, which maths to 175mm. This will not get you much more than about 25.9 tall on a 15. For example, say you went 185/75-15, which could be ~25.9. You would have to experiment with tire pressure to get that tire to run flat on the road for a long tread life. On a standard-issue zero offset wheel, it's gonna wander at hiway speed. and, it may have the occasional pull around town, on less than dead-flat roads like well-worn asphalts. On concrete, it might be alright.

Just a reminder, if you run a bolt-pattern adapter on the front, this adds 1 inch to the offset, which has to be compensated for by a custom wheel, else you will have the mentioned alignment problems. and with a taller tire, the scrub radius will end up giving you steering quirks. I highly recommend not to do it. Especially if you have 9" brakes in the which that outer bearing is gonna take a chit-kicking. I have personally broken two of those spindles off with just stock wheels. When the spindle breaks, the wheel comes off with the drum , the car falls down and the wheel keeps going, usually wrecking the wheel house. and of course, you got no front brakes, which doesn't really matter, cuz the backing plate is digging a rut in the asphalt, until the car stops. If this happens in traffic, that runaway wheel is likely gonna do other damage to other cars.
 
Looks real good. How difficult is it to find KH brake setups? Are they a direct fit? I will check out your build. I have had this car for a year and have been going over it quite a bit.

For the KH System;
You need everything between the control arms; but you get the 4" boltpattern on the discs, which, I have found to be more than adequate for street duty. At conversion time, I highly recommend to change over your braking system to a dual-system. It's not that hard, not complicated, not expensive, and infinitely safer.
I have run these systems on all my A-bodies since the 70s, and have always found them to be more than adequate for street duty.
There is a guy here on FABO, who often has reconditioned KH stuff for sale. I just can't remember his name right now.
If that fails, I have one very low mileage system left on the back burner. I took it off a crashed 68 Formula S many many decades ago.

If you're gonna do the brakes thing anyway, then
1) I would echo "33IMP" from post #8, and
2) "slant six" from post #2
 
Well I found 2 15" x 7" Kelsey Hays Cop Car wheels to start with and was thinking about a 205-60-15 tire. I have BFG's 255 T/A's in the back. Looking a a pair of BFG 205's and damn those are expensive, I tought that I accidently clicked on the Pirellis or Continentals. 178.00 each, yikes!!!
 
Here is how it looks now with the tires and rims. I need to drop the front it looks like. This is with the adapters until the new Wilwood kit goes on. So the riming not so much as this setup will tuck back inboard with the brakes as the adapter has a 1 inch spacer. It looks much improved and should ride and turn better. Braking not so much with the added weight

IMG_5063.jpeg


IMG_5062.jpeg
 
On my 62 I bought the compete front/rear suspension off of a 69 Barracuda (Barracuda was getting full tubular suspension, etc.).
The Barracuda already had sbp front disc.
Direct bolt in, except needed to use the Valiant front spring hanger and drill the hole for the spring bolt bigger.

Not a lot of room in the front, even with 14" wheels, I had to put big and little tires on the stock Mopar rims I used.

62 Valiant.png
 
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