16:1 vs. 24:1 steering

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70Duster340

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Considering purchasing a 16:1 manual steering box. How much more effort is needed compared to the 24:1 OEM manual steering?

Thanks
 
Kind of a tough thing to describe. The 24:1 steering box is easy to steer IMO, but it depends on what you’re used to. The 16:1 box requires a significant amount more effort. I wouldn’t call it difficult, but some might. And it’s dependent on your alignment, size of your front tires, etc. And what you’re used to. I have a 16:1 manual box on my Duster with 275/35/18’s up front and +6.5* of caster and I like it, but if I had to parallel park it everyday I might form a different opinion. Below 10mph you want to have a plan for turning and parking, because dry steering it when you’re not moving isn’t going to be something you want to do.

PST is selling a 20:1 box as well, just FYI.
 
If you're like a lot of people and try to turn the steering wheel before the car is rolling, you might not like it. It's one of those things you kinda have to "plan ahead" for when making very slow tight turns. I've had a couple with the 16:1 boxes, but honestly, to me they react "too much". That said, I don't do any autocrossing, either. lol
 
16/24= .666

So you will have to apply 33% more effort to turn the wheel

16/20 = .8
So 20% more effort

20/24 = .83
So 17% more effort.

I can palm steer my 67 Dart stock 24:1 (273, 215/70R14 tires) in a parking lot (but just barely) most of the time it is hand over hand.

At over parking lot speeds there is no issue
 
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Dana67Dart said:
16/24= .666

So you will have to apply 33% more effort to turn the wheel

16/20 = .8
So 20% more effort

20/24 = .83
So 17% more effort.

I can palm steer my 67 Dart (273, 215/70R14 tires) in a parking lot (but just barely) most of the time it is hand over hand.

At over parking lot speeds there is no issue
Click to expand...
That's a pretty good analysis. Which gear box does your car have?

The tire size also plays a pretty big role, too. The wider they get, the more the effort increases. When I was younger, I used to like turning lock to lock in like 3.5 turns. Now I just don't give a damn anymore. lol I can palm steer Vixen sittin still and she has a smaller than stock wheel. I kinda like bein able to do that. She has the 24:1 box. I like it because if Kitty wants to drive, it's easy for her. It only takes a few more turns. How big a hurry are people really in?
 
I was thinking more about the handling perspective. When I bought the car, it has manual steering with the aluminum steering box, and what I assume is the standard 24:1 steering. It's been apart for a long time now, and I honestly can't remember what the steering was like. Is there any kind of markings that would designate what the steering ratio is?

I was looking at steering boxes from Jegs. They are 16:1, and are $292.00. I thought that was a good price.
 
The stock 24:1 is about 5 1/2 turns lock to lock, 16:1 is close to 3 1/2. The aftermarket 20:1 boxes should be about 4 1/2. There’s no markings I’m aware of.

PST has a FABO members discount and sells 24:1, 16:1, and now 20:1 manual steering boxes.

From a handling perspective you want to be able to turn quickly, but that’s not quite as simple as it sounds. A 16:1 box will turn the wheels with less travel on the steering wheel, but it takes more effort, especially at lower speeds. Which means in some cases you may not actually be able to turn the wheel faster because of the higher effort. Like most things, it’s a trade off.
 
I’m running the 20/1 from FF and like it for street driving but don’t like it for auto X as it’s more input than the 16/1 which I also have a FF one. The 20/1 would be fine on track and once your rolling you really can’t tell the difference in effort needed for input. Seat position also has an effect, ever see a NASCAR driver sitting so close to the wheel, with their hand at 12 and elbow at 4 on the wheel?
 
It's kind of funny I took the 340 swinger out with the factory manual steering and bus steering wheel yesterday and was maneuvering in a parking lot. I thought to myself I sure am glad I don't have a more aggressive steering box because I was cranking on it pretty good. My car is not set up for slalom or any kind of competition but I don't feel I would want any more resistance on the steering wheel. I run 225-15s on the front.
 
This thread has me thinking about alignment specs for manual boxes .
I had my Dart ( manual) aligned to the same specs as my Barracuda ( power) using Skosh chart specs ... was this a mistake ?
What specs would make the steering effort easier without having a wandering car ?
I run 215/75-14 front tires
 
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72bluNblu said:
The stock 24:1 is about 5 1/2 turns lock to lock, 16:1 is close to 3 1/2. The aftermarket 20:1 boxes should be about 4 1/2. There’s no markings I’m aware of.

PST has a FABO members discount and sells 24:1, 16:1, and now 20:1 manual steering boxes.

From a handling perspective you want to be able to turn quickly, but that’s not quite as simple as it sounds. A 16:1 box will turn the wheels with less travel on the steering wheel, but it takes more effort, especially at lower speeds. Which means in some cases you may not actually be able to turn the wheel faster because of the higher effort. Like most things, it’s a trade off.
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Bout the best way to put it ^^^^^ Trade off.
 
I will say that a four-speed and big cam all contribute to parking lot difficulties. I do have a tendency to just horse the steering wheel to go where I want it to that means in a very tight situation I just crank it dead stop it doesn't matter, with a little more finesse and an automatic I feel it would definitely be easier. Smaller tires on the front would definitely help but I feel that would just be defeating the purpose of a fast ratio steering box.
 
I have a 16:1 on my Duster and love it. Tried one on my 69 Road Runner and it was noticeably harder to steer at slow speeds. My wife hated it. Just received PST's new 20:1 box last week for the RR. I think it will be the best of both worlds. The above post stating the lock to lock of each box is correct.
 
Does anyone have any experience with the Jegs unit?

What about just adding a fast ratio pitman arm? Would that help with the 24:1 box?
 
mbaird said:
This thread has me thinking about alignment specs for manual boxes .
I had my Dart ( manual) aligned to the same specs as my Barracuda ( power) using Skosh chart specs ... was this a mistake ?
What specs would make the steering effort easier without having a wandering car ?
I run 215/75-14 front tires
Click to expand...

If you used the SKOSH chart you’ll be fine. The SKOSH is pretty conservative for caster settings. And 215’s aren’t all that wide to start inducing rut seeking behavior you get with wider tires.

Like I said earlier, I run a 16:1 steering box, 275/35/18’s on the front, and I run +6.5* of caster. So, you should be fine.

70Duster340 said:
Does anyone have any experience with the Jegs unit?

What about just adding a fast ratio pitman arm? Would that help with the 24:1 box?
Click to expand...

Jegs isn’t that manufacturer, so, they probably get that box from the same place PST does. I’d rather deal with PST, but that’s just me.

The fast ratio pitman on a 24:1 box would basically give you an 18:1 ratio I think? They were made to take the power steering boxes from 16:1 to 12:1. But they have header clearance problems on A-bodies, like almost nothing clears them. You’d be better off just buying a 16:1 or 20:1 box IMO.
 
70Duster340 said:
Does anyone have any experience with the Jegs unit?

What about just adding a fast ratio pitman arm? Would that help with the 24:1 box?
Click to expand...
I have this setup on my challenger, it’s still a lot of wheel movement, 4 1/2 lock to lock. The plan is to install the 16:1 FR box I took out of my barracuda.
The barracuda strictly street with a 4 speed so I’m put a power box in. The 16:1 was ok except for slow speed turns and having to down shift.. if the car was an auto I would have left the manual box in.
 
I have a new PST 16:1 with manual steering and a 4 speed and love it. Point and go.
Replaced my worn out factory whatever, probably the same, but so much play.

I use the clutch to rock the car back and forth if in a jamb, like parallel parking, and when reversing turn the wheel the direction you want to go forward before you stop.

And don't back up until you can't go any farther, back up until you clear the front end.
 
I wouldn't mind drivin someone's car with a 20:1 box. I want to see how much difference it is. I don't think I would want the 16:1 because Kitty likes to drive every now and then and she doesn't have a lot of strength in her hands and arms.
 
72bluNblu said:
Kind of a tough thing to describe. The 24:1 steering box is easy to steer IMO, but it depends on what you’re used to. The 16:1 box requires a significant amount more effort. I wouldn’t call it difficult, but some might. And it’s dependent on your alignment, size of your front tires, etc. And what you’re used to. I have a 16:1 manual box on my Duster with 275/35/18’s up front and +6.5* of caster and I like it, but if I had to parallel park it everyday I might form a different opinion. Below 10mph you want to have a plan for turning and parking, because dry steering it when you’re not moving isn’t going to be something you want to do.

PST is selling a 20:1 box as well, just FYI.
Click to expand...

Not sure about 72bluNblu’s workout regimen but I’d advise against picking a fight with this guy. He must have arms the size of tree trunks. :D

I’m running a 16:1 box on smaller tires with less caster and IMO, it can be a b1tch in some circumstances. I recently had to re-torque and Loctite the hex screws that hold on my Momo Prototipo steering wheel, presumably because maneuvering around tight spaces applies such force on the hub.

Is it manageable? Yes…but it’s FAR outside of anything that would be sold by an OEM.

Just my opinion.

FWIW, I have the engine out of my car and clear access to the box and the thought to go to a slower ratio has never crossed my mind.
 
16:1 is quite heavy at parking speeds
20:1 was the standard fitmnet on all RHD cars i.e Baracuda for UK Japan south africa Australia

i.e the aussies used it in Dart bodies and their shorter A body front B body rear width charger style body. It was considerd perfectly fine on standard 6 1/2 or 7 inch wheels

I run 225 65 R14 radials with as much castor as i can get on a short Aussie Charger and to be honest 16:1 is a pig at parking speed However the benefits on the motorway/freeway and around the lanes and backroads greatly outweigh the fact that i get a bit of a sweat on when stopping for groceries

steering box rebuild detail here with part numbers and how to convert from LHD to RHD or vice versa

Manual steering box rebuild - Mopar Muscle Association UK

Dave
 
Another thing to look at to help with effort at slow speeds would be to add electric power steering from a modern car. It goes around the steering column under the dash, nothing in the engine bay. I don't have experience with manual steering though so I don't have anything to add regarding effort and feel.
 
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