WhyteRoots
Well-Known Member
Are there any alterations required to install a 225 Slant-6 in the hole where a 170 used to live? Is the Torque-Flite transmission exactly the same for both? How about the rear axle ratio?
170 for 225 SWAP - '62 VALIANT
- Thread starter WhyteRoots
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Charrlie_S
Well-Known Member
Depends on the year of the engine. A 68 or newer engine needs a crankshaft adapter bushing (I have these available), if useing the 67 or older auto trans. Might have to modify the exhaust pipe (sometime yes, sometime no) where it comes up to the engine. The 225 manifold outlet is 1 1/2 inches higher, then the 170. You also must use the 66 and older oil pan and pump pickup tube, and the original car motor mounts/brackets.
WhyteRoots
Well-Known Member
CHARRLIE, thanks, that's exactly what I needed to know. So I should be looking for a pre-1967 donor engine, to keep things as simple as possible. ~Rob
Charrlie_S
Well-Known Member
I really wouln't worry about it. It will probably be hard to find a pre 66 engine in good enough condition to just drop in. Also even if the engine is pre 66, I'm pretty sure, it must be from an "A" body, to have the correct oil pan and pickup. It is no big deal to swap the neccessary pieces. The only place you can't just swap parts from your old engine, is where connecting the trans.You must use the flexplate from the later engine, and the adapter bushing I mentioned. That's it. If you get a late engine with no flex plate, it will be no problem to get one. They are available new or used (I have some used, as would others on this site). The adapter bushing is available from several sources, TFPatty, Doctor Dodge, or myself (I sell them for $20 shipping included).
you mean this swap? i did that very thing some years ago to a 62 valiant-- I got lucky in finding a low mileage 225 from a 65 b body. The car is still driven in Wichita & i talk to the owner occasionally, Lawrence
WhyteRoots
Well-Known Member
VDART, yeah, that's exactly what I'll be doing, if I manage to get that Signet this weekend.
CHARRLIE, back alleys around here are littered with rusty '63 to '66 Valiants (Darts, really), so finding an A-body 225 won't be a problem. I would count on doing a minor engine rebuild anyway - rings, bearing shells, valves, and maybe the camshaft. As long as the block isn't cracked from no antifreeze, condition won't be that important.
CHARRLIE, back alleys around here are littered with rusty '63 to '66 Valiants (Darts, really), so finding an A-body 225 won't be a problem. I would count on doing a minor engine rebuild anyway - rings, bearing shells, valves, and maybe the camshaft. As long as the block isn't cracked from no antifreeze, condition won't be that important.
Charrlie_S
Well-Known Member
OK, no problem. If you need any more info just post.
nuttyprof
Well-Known Member
Other than the exhaust manifold sitting higher, if you stay with the early crank the only other issue is the throttle rod may need adjusted. 62s use a solid rod that twists to run the throttle, changing the angle (due to taller block) may cause binding or incomplete travel.
Is that an aluminum 170 slant you took out?
Yes, yes the linkage-- I forgot about this-- I had quite a time trying to figure out the difference--- it is simple-- there are 2 sizes of end caps-- the piece that snaps into place & threads on the linkage-- my 170 had a short one -- found a longer one & my linkages all lined up. this is the top one outside the firewall. Lawrence
WhyteRoots
Well-Known Member
Did they actually make aluminum block 170s? Thanks for the linkage tips, btw.
WhyteRoots
Well-Known Member
Yeah, that's what I thought.
Well, I missed the giveaway Valiant - someone beat me to it. I'm back in the hunt then. WANTED: '62 Signet, condition somewhat unimportant, must have a good story.
Well, I missed the giveaway Valiant - someone beat me to it. I'm back in the hunt then. WANTED: '62 Signet, condition somewhat unimportant, must have a good story.
Midway through the 1961 model year, Valiants (and the new Dodge Lancer) could be ordered with the 225 as an option to the 170. These were still all cast iron engines. A few months later, the aluminum 225 was released as the predominant optional engine (a few iron 225s were also used) for Valiants and Lancers. It is likely that a few aluminum 225s were also installed in larger cars. There were a couple of engineering-prototype aluminum 170s, but none were installed in production cars. The prototype aluminum block 170s were made using the sand casting process. The aluminum Slant Six block was series-produced in the RG (raised or tall block) 225 configuration using a die cast process. This block configuration can be used with 225 crank/rods and with 198 crank/rods. Of course, the 198 was still years away (1970-74) when the aluminum engines were produced. I mention that the 198 crank and rods are for use in an RG block specifically because so many sources screw this up and call the 198 an LG engine (Low block, like a 170, with the lower block deck height). In summary, the aluminum 225 block will accept any 198 or 225 forged crankshaft (not the post-'76 cast cranks). Of course, the appropriate rods / pistons must be used with whatever crank is installed.
WhyteRoots
Well-Known Member
Excellent background, thanks. So, you're saying that aluminum 225s are not particularly rare, that they were normal production equipment for a while. How long did that continue and did it apply to all assembly plants? Other than scratching through the grease and paint, is there an easy way to identify an aluminum block engine?
I don't suppose the material itself had a direct effect on power output but it could have improved the car's handling, with less front weight bias. As usual, they were probably discontinued because of cost but did they also have any reliability issues? I hate to use the word "Vega" here, however, that was many people's first adventure with aluminum engines.
I don't suppose the material itself had a direct effect on power output but it could have improved the car's handling, with less front weight bias. As usual, they were probably discontinued because of cost but did they also have any reliability issues? I hate to use the word "Vega" here, however, that was many people's first adventure with aluminum engines.
WhyteRoots
Well-Known Member
(I did get that "free-to-a-good-home" Valiant and brought it home last month.)
I'm taking another leap of faith today. I've found a 225 stationary engine that spent its life connected to a fire pump. For fire code purposes, it was started regularly and run under load for at least an hour, once a year. It was taken out of service recently when the pump was replaced with a more sophisticated unit. There is probably less than 50 hours running time on this engine.
Looking it over, the castings and mounting holes look the same as the engine that's missing from my '62 Valiant Signet. Most of the accessories are mounted differently - alternator, starter, etc. The bell housing and flex plate are completely different and the carburetor is set up for natural gas. I have most of this stuff left over from my car's original 170 slant six, which the previous owner scrapped.
I'm getting this lump for $500, less than what parts would cost me to refresh a used engine. Recent test results show compression is right up to spec, except one cylinder that's down about 6 psi. All it seems to need is a fresh coat of red paint. I hope this stationary-spec engine is internally set up the same as road-going slant sixes, with similar horsepower and torque.
Fire pump engines have an honourable history - Duesenberg and Coventry-Climax were big suppliers to the industry - so my Valiant ought to be proud to have one under its shapely hood.
I'm taking another leap of faith today. I've found a 225 stationary engine that spent its life connected to a fire pump. For fire code purposes, it was started regularly and run under load for at least an hour, once a year. It was taken out of service recently when the pump was replaced with a more sophisticated unit. There is probably less than 50 hours running time on this engine.
Looking it over, the castings and mounting holes look the same as the engine that's missing from my '62 Valiant Signet. Most of the accessories are mounted differently - alternator, starter, etc. The bell housing and flex plate are completely different and the carburetor is set up for natural gas. I have most of this stuff left over from my car's original 170 slant six, which the previous owner scrapped.
I'm getting this lump for $500, less than what parts would cost me to refresh a used engine. Recent test results show compression is right up to spec, except one cylinder that's down about 6 psi. All it seems to need is a fresh coat of red paint. I hope this stationary-spec engine is internally set up the same as road-going slant sixes, with similar horsepower and torque.
Fire pump engines have an honourable history - Duesenberg and Coventry-Climax were big suppliers to the industry - so my Valiant ought to be proud to have one under its shapely hood.
Sounds like a plan. Post up some pics when you can.
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