225 turbo headers

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I'm gonna try a Pishta "inspired" set up. I will let everyone know when I have failed miserably

I don't think you'll be sorry!

In order to have a slant six powered street car that will get out of its own way, about 250-300 HP is needed.

You're not going to get that kind of power with a normally-aspirated 170 or 198, unless you build a full-race motor with all the driveability issues that go with a motor like that; wild cam, really high compression, a really efficient intake system and some very efficient headers. Even then, the 170 would not be much fun to drive on the street.

That leaves the 225.

The 225 stretches the breathing ability of that 170 head to the breaking point and beyond. There's just no room for the kind of valves that are needed to make a "breather" out of the 39 cubic inches per cylinder that the 225 has.

So, people try anyway, spending money on headers, cams, 4bbl intake manifolding, headers, and high-compression pistons in an effort to get some reasonable grunt out of a normallly-aspirated 225 motor.

Guzzi Mark runs fast with a N/A 225 in an A-Body, but he has a strong, full-race engine in a super-light, "generation one" A-Body (about 2,350 pounds, I think) and if you bear in mind that a typical street-driven '70 Dart will probably weigh 1,000-pounds more than his race car, you begin to see the problem.

Tom Wolfe's '70 Dart made 300 HP out of what was basically, a stock 225, that had had a Buick turbo and a 4bbl carb, and nothing more.

He needed 20 pounds of boost to do it, but it shows what is possible with a hairdryer motor and not much else.

That "stock" motor probably wouldn't live very long at 20 pound boost levels, but at 15 pounds, with an alcohol injection system, a 200 horsepower mill that COULD "live" indefinitely, is a real possibility.

I am thinking that the PISHTA-mount turbo and a Snowperformance Boost Cooler might give a reliable 200 horsepower with good street manners and fuel economy, in an A-Body weighing about 3,300-pounds.

That would give you a /6 car that could run toe-to-toe with a '68 383 Road Runner (14.80s.)

Hard to beat that "bang for the buck" with an engine that doesn't even require the head be removed!

I will be anxiously awating some reports of performance increases from cars using the PISHTA turbo system. I think they will be performance bargains, as bang-for-the-buck mods go.
 

Not much help for a turbocharged engine, which was the point of this thread.

I suppose you might be able to do some serious surgery on those and re-configure the pipes into something that a turbo could mount to, and in that vein, it might be a cheap was to get a running start at a turbo header, but it might be easier just to start from scratch with a turbo-header build.


PISHTA's idea still seems like the way to go, I think.:cheers:
 
When putting a turbo on the 225, what kind of work do you typically have to do as far as carburetion? I'm sure the little single-barrel wouldn't be able to keep up, but could it work with a double-barrel? And I'm curious about lower boost numbers, like 7-10 pounds.
 
Not much help for a turbocharged engine, which was the point of this thread.

I suppose you might be able to do some serious surgery on those and re-configure the pipes into something that a turbo could mount to, and in that vein, it might be a cheap was to get a running start at a turbo header, but it might be easier just to start from scratch with a turbo-header build.


PISHTA's idea still seems like the way to go, I think.:cheers:

Bill - Has anybody tried to make a merged pipe for those Dutra dual manifolds? Seems like they've got the welding part down...
 
These look like some pretty simple ideas. Someday I'm gonna build me a turbo'd slant.
 
When putting a turbo on the 225, what kind of work do you typically have to do as far as carburetion? I'm sure the little single-barrel wouldn't be able to keep up, but could it work with a double-barrel? And I'm curious about lower boost numbers, like 7-10 pounds.

Blow-thru carb modifications are not black magic, but they are not something I would try, myself.

There's a lot of information available on the Internet about this subject, and that's a good thing, because those modifications are ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY, I believe, to the longivity of any boosted, carbureted, engine that uses blow-thru methodology.

I am a brain-dead old fart who is JUST smart enough to know that the learning curve necessary to climb in order to achieve a properly-modified blow-thru carb is, realistically, beyond my reach.

I know that.

But, lots of other folks have tried it with good results.

Nobody's sayin' it can't be done.

I'm just not the guy...:banghead:
 
I'm thinking a merged pipe/ turboadaptor like Pishta has - but with the seperate manifolds like Dutra/Waggin. Somthing that would let the flow be angled and smoothed before it hits the turbo flange...
Just thinking out loud here...
 
I'm thinking a merged pipe/ turboadaptor like Pishta has - but with the seperate manifolds like Dutra/Waggin. Somthing that would let the flow be angled and smoothed before it hits the turbo flange...
Just thinking out loud here...

That really WOULD probably flow better than the single-outlet, stock manifold.

Sounds like a plan!!! :cheers:
 
The biggest expense I keep running into is no off-the-shelf pistons. Sure, the stockers are good for 200-250 hp, but that's normally aspirated range. Increase boost, and there is no way they will last. The Wisecos have too much deck height for a turbo application so we're back to $100 each for custom ones.

Second is tuning. Blow-through carbs are a terrible idea. I know you guys are running one, and there are others, but it's a hack. Add in the built-in mixture distribution problems of any 4bbl manifold and it's a holed piston waiting to happen.

The best option is an EFI system.

Sure guys can cobble together a junkyard bomb, but serious, reliable power (like 400-500 hp) should be attainable only with EFI and a large enough turbo. And lots of tuning time on a chassis dyno.
 
Ok, so much to read and so little time..lol You guys rock here, I'm proud to be a member. I think I will save the header money, keep the big carb, and do the J pipe turbo trick. Looks easy enough, may ask stupid questions later, for have never done turbo before. will do much research now. I do have the twinn turbos off a early 90s RX7, would one of these be a good candidate. Not going wild, just low boost street performance. Plus these turbos had no intercooler, just intake tube with large inline cone air filter leading to front of car.
Not a turbo header question, but unable to find a post to start with.
Does anyone know anything about DEC slant six headers? Website has no pics, and price seems a little low..Thanks in advance
 
I asked those guys early last year to make me one upside down so it would be half useable as a basis for a header, just the 3-1 stubs running straight out (well, to fit the intake) but they said "No"...really? Maybe if more ask...Or put a small T25 turbo on each stack and run them through your hood...Its hard to imagine those headers flanges inside a slant intake...from the generic pic. I agree, EFI is the ticket and I have a Megasquirt 2.2 still in a box somewhere and 6 30 lb injectors already set aside....:)
 
I think guys are selling there self short everyone is looking for a easy way to turbo charge a slant six or any vehicle for that matter. But the truth be told for all of us that love our mopars there is no bolt on kit period....
Building a turbo header is not difficult but very time consuming. With a well thought out design and some good tools it can be done for around $500 to $600.
EFI would be great but it has its limitations to my knowledge other then Tilley there's no high HP SLANT running efi im not saying it can't be done but like one of the posters said it would take alot of dyno time and that doesn't come cheap!
As far as blow through carbs go there proven to work and work very effective and its not a black art as mean people are lead to believe the info is out there one just has to be willing to look for it and to ask the right questions to the right people! The main two problems with blow thru is keeping a consistent fuel bowl float level and the power valve circuit. And as long as your not running high boost over 12 psi a stock PV we work ok.
Pistons stock slant six pistons are almost a inch thick on the crown and can take some serious abuse. As a matter of fact the two fastest slant turbo cars were running well over 20 pounds of boost on stock pistons
But most slant racers invest in H beam rods and aftermarket pistons that will set you back around a grand.
Just one man's opinion
 
EFI is the only way to go. And it made some very high HP numbers.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUPGcWydflk"]Slant 6 start up 2 - YouTube[/ame]
 
The key to making power is not high boost figures. That's only resistance to airflow you read anyway so once you max the exhaust you can have 15, 20, 40 psi and it won't make any more power. I've got a couple ideas about working a /6 head a bit to get the air in and out. So what I'm running through my head is not a huge turbo - something that is responsive that with the ported head can give me 6-8psi. I've looked and found some used performance turbos for sale for reasonable money (under $500 now but $2K+ new). I'm thinking either cut up a factory manifold like Dutra only make the flnages point to a better spot and not a ball/socket flange, and possibly the EFI from a Ford 300 straight 6. Those are cheap and can make use of all the larger components made for mustangs, which are also cheap. It may just be a pipe dream, but who knows. Pistons are not a concern at this point for the reasons noted above. Now if I can only get this 225 I'm trying for now...lol
 
Man i must say if you send me your address and leave those dam nice turbo headers out for me i will pick them up and really appreciate it .But all kidding aside nice job ..
Arco
 
Man i must say if you send me your address and leave those dam nice turbo headers out for me i will pick them up and really appreciate it .But all kidding aside nice job ..
Arco

I wish SOMEBODY who can weld, would make some PISHTA-design headers for sale. I'd do it, myself, but I have ten thumbs and fabricate at a kindergarten level.

I KNOW there are guys on this board who can do this with their eyes closed...

I think there's a market out there. Not a big one, but enough for somebody to make a fe bcks, and the benefits of a 10psi turbo installation on a /6 car would be awesome.

Lots of bang for the buck in a deal like that...:arrow::glasses7:
 
Very nice! Exactly my point.

Both Tom Wolfe and Ryan Peterson have 233 cubic inch 225 motors that run one 4bbl Holley, turbo-boosted, on gasoline and both make about 500 horsepower.

Can you show me an EFI slant six, running on gasoline that makes significantly more horsepower than that?

Just askin'...:glasses7:
 
Mine runs on methanol, It made 270 hp at 6700rpm normally aspirated.
With the turbo it made 485hp at 4700rpm. 15 lbs of boost. Tire spin was keeping from getting good numbers after that, but it is tuned to 7000rpm.
 
Mine runs on methanol, It made 270 hp at 6700rpm normally aspirated.
With the turbo it made 485hp at 4700rpm. 15 lbs of boost. Tire spin was keeping from getting good numbers after that, but it is tuned to 7000rpm.

What a great-looking setup! I REALLY like your turbo header! Simple and very effective!
It would seem to me that on alcohol, you should be capable of utilizing a lot more boost than 15 pounds (given alcohol's excellent anti-detonarion properties) so, I'd thnk that there is a lot more horsepower to be had, if you want to up the anti, later on.

I'm impressed with the whole car. Nice job!!!

Are you going for more performance in the future? I think it's pretty obvious that you've just barely scratched the surface with this little jewel!

Keep us informed, please; the potential with this combo is really impresssive!

Thanks for sharing.:cheers:
 
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