250 HP Slant Six - No Turbo

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Good advice Slantzilla, slant.org has been a great resource for my build as well. I am still finding usefull info with every search. I also got a head from Mike Jeffery along with a combination to try. Just curious what does your car weigh in street trim? Is there a thread on your build up?
Thanks Slanteast
 
My car weighed 3250 w/me in it when it ran those times.

My combo has been together for so long you probably can't dig up all the threads it has been posted in. It is pretty basic and easy to duplicate though.

1970 198 block bored +.065"
Forged crank kit from Car Quest
Jeffrey head with mild porting, O/S valves, springs good for .600" lift
RAS stock rebuilt rocker arms/shaft ($85 and they did not want cores back)
Stock 198 rods rebuilt by Mike w/ARP bolts
KB hyper 2.2 turbo pistons .5mm oversize
Matching rings gapped for nitrous
Clifford 300*/.558" cam (20+ years old, bought used from Mike for $50)
Clifford intake bought used off the Internet
Clifford headers bought new for my Duster, wouldn't fit so they went in the '66
Jeffrey windage tray
Johnson crank scraper off E-bay
Stock '66 pan/pickup
Autozone 5 bolt oil pump blueprinted by Doug Dutra
Dutra hardened oil pump gear
MP roller timing chain (Got 3 sets when MP discontinued them for $40 each)
Smith Brothers stock replacement pushrods
Stock Mopar electronic distributor w/advance slots welded to limit advance
MP chrome valve cover bought at swap meet for $25
Holley 600 double pumper carb
Top Gun 150 shot plate system
MSD6A-L ignition

Motor is shifted at 62-6400 RPM and has been bullet-proof with a 150 shot on it.

Not so much with a 180 shot.

See? Nothing incredibly fancy, just good basic parts.

Biggest mistake you can make with a Slant or any tiny motor is to use a poorly matched group of parts. When you start with a little motor you are already in the hole.
 
ya slant 6 .org is a weird site but has a lot of good guys on there i got some thin for ya put 355s in the rear of a stock 225 and rev the slant to 4000 rpms then shift they arnt bad
its what i got is chirps 1 to 2 gear its funn lol
 
First off, you asked 6 questions, with 6 answers from one person and we are automatically A-holes? I've butted heads with Dan before also, but that is nothing. I talked to a Jeep forum for my girlfriend, they ridiculed me and told me since I was 19 I had no idea how to turn a wrench. That was two years ago, I posted a quicker quarter mile time and fixed the Jeep problem by myself.
So, EFI will be the way to go, you can look me up .org under the EFI section. Big cam and heads are what your going to need. A cam regrinder like OregonCam will be important, I would refrain from doing business with Clifford. Their intake manifold is supposed to have a better cross section, frankly, an offy is just fine.
So, I'm 21 now and mounting my m90 supercharger on my 170 and planning on a 8000rpm redline. I'm trying to compete with a friend of mine (Fopar). I've learned and got good at slant stuff by learning from those guys and racing with them. If you notice all the guys with good comments are mods from the Slantsix.org site, the FABO said I would rather build a 318. I think your going to have to swallow some pride from now on....
 
First off, you asked 6 questions, with 6 answers from one person and we are automatically A-holes? ......I think your going to have to swallow some pride from now on....

You read his post, yet missed the part where he adjusted his approach?

"In the end, I guess it would be unfair to group "everyone" on slantsix as assbags."

He modified his approach, adjusted his statement a bit.
 
Fair enough, it was mildly hurtful to see good people get such hurtful words.
I understand that Dan has caused some problems, I personally get more and more furious with every post I read, but I like slants and the guys I get to race with. FABO I check into every once in a while to see if I can help or learn something, mostly about v8's. But just like I check in here for SB stuff we know our stuff, so please do not be afraid to give .org another try.

Second, we have some good group buys you might be interested in. Doug put together an Erson deal with a big cam that you may be interested in. I hope that when your done if you say make 297hp you won't be disappointed, especially if you can handle it between stop signs. Don't forget about either cal-tracs or a 4 link, bigger brakes, and better rear end gears. I try to tell the teens, that even though I wanted a big cam and such, these are what made my car faster.
 
Actually a proper Text Book would be a combination of Articles and books reaching all the way back to 1960.. the first introduction of the slant six..

My first suggestion to you in addition to lots and lots of reading of this material is getting the best block you can find on the budget

I would suggest it be a Truck block... which is coupled to the type of trans you are chosing to use for a couple of reasons

#1) All Slant Six Connecting rods used in pickups, trucks and industrial engines by Dodge were shot peened from the factory.

#2) and early ones had a forged crank not cast crank

do you know about block numbering which will save you time in block selection of a good high horse output block?

if not you want to seek out one with preferabley a 2 or 3 on the side near the engine id info...

a block will never have a # lower than 2 because at foundry it started from 2 halves, when a bore area is changed in the 2 halve it adds 1 to the original starting number for each cylinder core changed in the mold process

so you are looking for a block with either nonereplaced or only one or two because this can affect the bore center, and water jacket position in the final cast iron block

Also of note is in the arly 60's there was a rare 251 cubic inch slant six made and it came in pickups and larger trucks as an optional engine...

Using the Mopar performance Engine manual as one of the references...

I suggest you use the Hyper pak Nascar set up which was Run by Lee Petty, Mavin Panch's Valiants in 1961 & 1962 only 3 races Mopar was so dominant in these that the plug was pulled on this 250 cu in and under race series Mopar got ists first sanctioning out for having too winning of a design..

They had a 244 degree duration cam the special Hyperpack manifold & Dual exhaust 4bbl carter AFB Carb..

The slant six head can be milled for compression up to around .090"

I removed .070 from the head on my 80 Chrysler Lebaron, it took my compression from 8.2 to about 9.5:1 I still ran pump gas no problem

eventually I plan to build a 302 Hp street legal car to drive and play with

it can be done by working smart and paying attention to every detail

don't forget to make a custom 2 piece timing cover with the cam movement limiter built into it like Lee Petty had done on his race car to prevent cam walk oil system failure which eliminated him from his first race in series...

this is an absolute must for any serious slant six horsepower project

Walt
 
Actually a proper Text Book would be a combination of Articles and books reaching all the way back to 1960.. the first introduction of the slant six..

My first suggestion to you in addition to lots and lots of reading of this material is getting the best block you can find on the budget

I would suggest it be a Truck block... which is coupled to the type of trans you are chosing to use for a couple of reasons
Yup a BH block, has BH on the side of it...
#1) All Slant Six Connecting rods used in pickups, trucks and industrial engines by Dodge were shot peened from the factory.

#2) and early ones had a forged crank not cast crank

do you know about block numbering which will save you time in block selection of a good high horse output block?

if not you want to seek out one with preferabley a 2 or 3 on the side near the engine id info...

a block will never have a # lower than 2 because at foundry it started from 2 halves, when a bore area is changed in the 2 halve it adds 1 to the original starting number for each cylinder core changed in the mold process

so you are looking for a block with either nonereplaced or only one or two because this can affect the bore center, and water jacket position in the final cast iron block

Also of note is in the arly 60's there was a rare 251 cubic inch slant six made and it came in pickups and larger trucks as an optional engine...
I call bullsh*t on this...
Using the Mopar performance Engine manual as one of the references...

I suggest you use the Hyper pak Nascar set up which was Run by Lee Petty, Mavin Panch's Valiants in 1961 & 1962 only 3 races Mopar was so dominant in these that the plug was pulled on this 250 cu in and under race series Mopar got ists first sanctioning out for having too winning of a design..

They had a 244 degree duration cam the special Hyperpack manifold & Dual exhaust 4bbl carter AFB Carb..

The slant six head can be milled for compression up to around .090"

I removed .070 from the head on my 80 Chrysler Lebaron, it took my compression from 8.2 to about 9.5:1 I still ran pump gas no problem

eventually I plan to build a 302 Hp street legal car to drive and play with

it can be done by working smart and paying attention to every detail

don't forget to make a custom 2 piece timing cover with the cam movement limiter built into it like Lee Petty had done on his race car to prevent cam walk oil system failure which eliminated him from his first race in series...
Does not need to be two piece just weld in an adjuster end off the rocker arm, measured to hit the cam of course and bolt it on..
this is an absolute must for any serious slant six horsepower project
I agree!!
Walt


TF
 
OK I WAS staying out of this thread...Nobody wins when mud is slung.

However Walt we really need you to back up some of your information.
Also remember that the cited referances from the early 60's are JUST that. Back when a 426 HEMI ran 14's in a 1/4.
There are a VAST amount of "newer" tricks around now. We have slant cars now that have run 9's and everyday 12's.

As for the MP book most of the slant guru's think it bunk to sell MP parts.(Which BTW are no longer supported by Mopar).
If you wish to learn about slant 6 engines 1 of the best places to do so is go where MOST of the slant 6ers hang out. SLANTSIX.ORG
JUST my02.
Frank
 
OK I WAS staying out of this thread...Nobody wins when mud is slung.

However Walt we really need you to back up some of your information.
Also remember that the cited referances from the early 60's are JUST that. Back when a 426 HEMI ran 14's in a 1/4.
There are a VAST amount of "newer" tricks around now. We have slant cars now that have run 9's and everyday 12's.

As for the MP book most of the slant guru's think it bunk to sell MP parts.(Which BTW are no longer supported by Mopar).
If you wish to learn about slant 6 engines 1 of the best places to do so is go where MOST of the slant 6ers hang out. SLANTSIX.ORG
JUST my02.
Frank
First I was not and never have relied on only Mopar Performance parts or only information that they have also not only old information as well...

For that matter you asking me my source(s) of info is fine to prove facts however don't get egg on your face when someone does prove what they are talking about...

FYI want to make a good bet? Since Standard Catalog series uses factory info... I'll seek out a Dodge Truck Brochure with the 251 slant six info in it as proof..

FYI from what I ahve found the 251 cu in Truck six was made for use in trucks (according to the Standard Catalogue of Light Duty Trucks) it was made in 62/63 although I'm uncertain as to length of production...

I also heard from a guy who actually found one of these bigger slant sixes and installed in it his pickup and was smoking a lot of vehicles in street racing with it... Shocking them when he showed they were beaten by a 6 cylinder he didn't bother to tell them its cubes were 251 not 225 LOL...

While I do not say I know everything there is to know about the slant six I do know more than most...

I also know that a slant six in a light car built right can push 50 MPG by adding to what started as Feather Duster fir basis too.

I will not knowingly mislead anyone and do take facts from many good sources

sorry you seem to have gotten a bee in your bonnet

Walt
 
Look carefully in any Dodge truck factory parts catalogue from 1961 thru 1968 and you'll quickly figure out that the 251 is a flathead-6, not a slant. It was used in the Power Wagon in those years, having replaced the pre-1961 230 flathead. The 251 flathead was also offered by Chrysler Industrial thru at least 1968 for new installations (you can check a Chrysler Industrial parts and service manual if you like, too), and long after that for service replacement. There is no 251 slant-6. There is also no 240 slant-6, despite mention of a "special 240CID truck slant-6" in amongst other errors of fact in literature published over the years, some of it from sources which should've been reliably authoritative. And there's also no "special 252 truck slant-6" (that one comes from transposing the 2nd and 3rd digit in "225"). As for the guy who thinks he remembers finding a special truck 251 slant-6...I'm sure that's exactly what he said. We can group him together with the guys who come up to you in the parking lot and start reminiscing about their '63 Barracuda with the 383 Hemi. The human memory is not a video recorder — not even close.

Misunderstand or partially-understand something, then repeat it once or twice, then a few people who hear/read it will repeat it once or twice each; repeated often enough it becomes "common knowledge", true or not. That's how it works at the chit-chat level of forums like this, and it's also how it works at the publishing level: Someone is tasked with putting together an article (book, manual, whatever) about the slant-6, they have a deadline, they don't quite check their facts carefully, the book/magazine/manual gets printed, and suddenly "it must be true, I read it in a book!.

I intend no offence or jab at you, GhostDuster, but please have the grace to say "Oh, oops, flathead, gotchya" and let it end.
 
Sure, any guy with a fat wallet could make 300 HP easy, it's as simple as dropping by the local speed shop. But what about the average joe who has bills to pay? This might require some theoretical engineering. I'm not talking about nitrous.

I believe it's as simple as reverting back to the old school. I think it's time to get out the text book from the late '70's and early '80's. So if any of you want to drop hints, advice, experience or knowledge, do it here. I will appreciate the help.

Ok, You've talked about it. Now do it.
 
My daily driver,62 valiant has 190 rwhp,has been 13.90 in the 1/4,feels like 300hp because car weighs 2620 with me in it,weight is more important than horsepower to me,takeing weight out is free,hp costs money,my opinion,Mark
 
I also know that a slant six in a light car built right can push 50 MPG by adding to what started as Feather Duster fir basis too.



Walt

A slant built right can get very good fuel milage, but I think 50 is a strech. I know of a a few slants that get in the 30+ MPG range. I have not heard of anyone getting better the 40 as a "normal" driver.
Actually a Feather Duster is not a light car. Most any 60-66 "A" body would be lighter.
 
has anybody seen the aluminum 4.0L slant six block on mancini racing web site. you woul be looking at 240 + cubic inches. this is in their chrysler engineering stuff thats for sale. price $3500.00.
 
has anybody seen the aluminum 4.0L slant six block on mancini racing web site. you woul be looking at 240 + cubic inches. this is in their chrysler engineering stuff thats for sale. price $3500.00.

That's just a plain old aluminum Slant block. Nothing fancy, and definitely not worth $3500. Let the buyer beware.

Other than that this thread has turned into a general wad of crap.
 
haha i agree. we at least need some pictures. i wanna see a 300 hp slant that i can build with bolt on parts and on a budget. i will be happy if mine makes 200.
 
has anybody seen the aluminum 4.0L slant six block on mancini racing web site. you woul be looking at 240 + cubic inches. this is in their chrysler engineering stuff thats for sale. price $3500.00.

As Slantzilla correctly states, it is not a "4.0" at all. It's incorrectly described, just like the other few slant-6 blocks they're offering. They're all regular, normal 225s — whoever was responsible for labelling or posting them doesn't know or care much about 6-cylinder engines and is calling all of them — the 4.0 Jeep blocks and the RG slant blocks alike — "4.0 slant-6" engines. No such thing. And no, the aluminum block isn't worth anywhere near $3500 (and I'd say the 2.2T3 isn't worth anywhere near $10K, and many of the rest of this stuff they're "trying to liquidate" is grossly overpriced).
 
Hoo boy, the sleeping giant has awakened. This has been a very entertaining thread to read, even if I felt a bit insulted at first. (Way to "apologize" while still writing off everyone on the forum as incapable of thinking for themselves.) As a young hothead who has learned the value of "shut up and listen," I'd like to concur with the good people here that it's the best way to get results.

I had some pie-in-the-sky goals myself, but with some sage advice from people who've been there and done that, .org provided me with a very viable plan for getting what I want out of my Valiant. FABO is great for the rest of the car, and there's many great people on both sites. Just keep a sense of humor and be open to new information. Think, research, inquire (best done after research), think again, decide. That's how you get the most bang for your buck.

At .org, the heavy lifting has already been done. Most of your answers are just a search button away. That build in Mopar Muscle is nice, but it'll cost you way more than spending a few hours typing in keywords on FABO and .org. I made myself a personalized how-to manual and checklist for my Valiant based on everything I learned in just a few days lurking around. Truly an amazing time we live in. I can't imagine how hard it would be to have tried doing something like this in the 70s or 80s. Some people may be...gruff...but use what you can and let the rest go. There are still plenty of helpful guys and gals out there willing to teach if you're willing to listen.
 
Let's give HighwayHooligan his thread back. Most of the things that give good performance work contrary to good fuel economy. Some, such as reducing weight and a higher compression ratio improve fuel economy as well as performance.

Mopar Performance gives the receipe for a 12 second bracket car, but it requires getting the weight down to 2350 lbs, a compression ratio of 12:1, slicks, a 390 cfm 4 bbl, and a 4.10:1 rear axle among other things. On the flip side, to get good fuel mileage in the 36 mpg (hwy) Dart Lite they had 2.45:1 rear gears as well as aluminum doors, decklid, and hood.

My suggestion is to read up on the G/RG engines from Mopar and magazine articles, especially those that document improvements with empirical testing. Check the web remembering anyone of us with an axe to grind can grind it here. That's my 2¢ worth.
 
Sounds like a great goal to shoot for, I personally never had a problem at slantsix.org, great site, alot of really useful info, and great guys with lots of info too. Id suggest giving the site another shot, not shooting down FABO, but /6's are the specialties for everyone over there :-D

Keep us posted on your progress
 
wow it's taming down a bit now,there is a lot of information coming out now,read up on the oiling systems.......if it's gonna be fast it needs to be reliable too.there are several ideas here that add hp and mileage as one poster pointed out compression,windage tray,lightening up the car etc.I'v never played with the efi or any of that fancy stuff but the biggest gains to be had are in the head and the weight of the reciprocating assembly and camshaft choice,and compression ratio.I just wouldn't be closing the door on valuable information because of age gap or whatever,respect your elders will and should be the most valuable tool in anything you do,It's kinda our job to do that I think????Isn't it?good luck with your build and keep us posted on your progress,some pic's would be nice!!!

two for two.JPG


slanty.JPG


good use for 305 chevy manifolds.JPG


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