273 rebuild

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Wedgy

Wedgy

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Hi together,

I am going to rebuild a 273.
I bought the engine from a Friend. He said that the engine has no power and must be compleatly rebuild.



After I had removed the heads I found some nice domed piston.
The numbers are L2222N.
Volume is -1.35cc.


In the next step I removed the camshaft.
Isky E-4 x88M 3901
I checked the lift and the intake centerline.
Lift is 0.418" on all tappets.
Intake centerline was 104,5°. I will still run the 1.78" intake valves, so I am thinking 109° to 110° would be better.

Could the intake centerline be the reason for the poor performace???


I am having a second camshaft from Edelbrock. It is a 2177.
What are your opinion, timing the E-4 right or go with the 2177 ?

Regard from Hamburg
Martin
 
Looks like a nice piece. The L2222's were either a early TRW forged piston or a late Egge cast piston. It doesn't look like they stick out of the bore at all and dome pistons should. The E-4 should be a 108* cam if I remember correctly. I don't think the engine would rpm if installed at 104* Here's a link to my 273 build from last winter. toolmanmike http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=94343
 
I can't really see the top od the slug, but it looks like a flat top w/valves reliefs.

104 is way low, and a possibly very good reason it performs crappy. I myself would grab a new camshaft and not an Edelbrock.
 
Here's a good lookin' solid lifter cam that's bigger than the E-4. The #132f looks good and a bigger duration cam #142f will raise the power rpm and idle rougher. The #142f needs a stick tranny or a bit of a convertor for your automatic and maybe a 3:54 or 3:73 rear gear. toolman
http://schneidercams.com/solidliftercamshafts-10.aspx
 
@Toolmanmike - I already know the article. Nice work!!!

I found a foto in your report. It shows my L2222N piston.



It is a domed piston. The dome is in the center as shown on the foto.

I had to turn the crank backwards, to get the cc. Thats the reason why a get a negativ cc (-1,35cc)when the piston is at TDC.

@rumblefish360 - Everybody say that the 2177 is a crap. Is the low 0.204" duration the reason for it?


I am having some other parts in stock.
Comp solit camshaft / 0.542" lift
Purple cam solid camshaft / 0.555" lift
I have to take a look for the correct part numbers.

And some 1.6 roller rockers are also there.

I think the solid cams are a bit to heavy for the little 273 with 1.78" intake valves???
Maybe the 1.6 in combination with the E-4 is a good option???

The Schneider produkts looking very nice but I try to use my existing parts. Maybe the 132F is a cam for my next 318 projekt :thumblef: thank you for the link.
 
I manufactured a ofset key with 5.5° +, so I will get 110° intake centerline instead of 104.5°.









Now I am measuring 110.25°. Maybe a bit too mutch. I will manufacture a second one with 4.5° ofset.
 
Hey Wedgy, you crazy guy. i know that you know these offset cam keys are sold by hughes etc. - you just want to do you own, right? Is it made from mild steel like st37 (s235j) or a stronger material?

Greetings from further down in Germany

Michael
 
Hi Michael,

the price is 73$ for six keys. That is really expensive. And in the end I just need one key.

I use ST52K. It is the correct material for this application.
The original width is 4,76mm. So I weaked the key for a offset from 5.5° about 0.7mm. This is 15% material attenuation.
I think it is ok, because I use the original valve springs.
But for the next key I will use a quenched and tempered steel.

Regards Martin
 
when my engine build is at this point to degree the cam i will come back to you if i need one.....nice work for sure! Greetings to Hamburg!

Michael
 
Here are the cams standing for election.

Isky E-4
Valve Lift 0.425 / 0.425
.050 Duration 216 / 216
LC 108

Edelbrock 2177
Valve Lift 0.420 / 0.420
.050 Duration 204 / 204
LC 110

Milling MTD1
Valve Lift 0.422 / 0.444
.050 Duration 204 / 214
LC 112

Crane Fireball 300A
Valve Lift 0.447 / 0.447
.050 Duration 222 / 232
LC ???
I can not find more informations about this cam?!

Comp Cams 290 A-6
Valve Lift 0.540 / 0.540
.050 Duration 255 / 255
LC 106

Mopar Performance Purple Cam
The only numbers I can find are:
221001
The lift is about 0.555"
Maybe it is the P4120655 ????
Valve Lift 0.540 / 0.540
.050 Duration 257 / 257
LC 110

1.6 rocker arms

So, what is your opinion.
What will be the best choice for my 273 projekt?:burnout:
 
In my 273 went with a Racer Brown ST-1.
.450/.450
222@50 Cant remember Lobe Center, will have to look for the cam card.

I've never been dis-satisfied with one of Jim's Cam's.


Wedgy said:
Here are the cams standing for election.

Isky E-4
Valve Lift 0.425 / 0.425
.050 Duration 216 / 216
LC 108

Edelbrock 2177
Valve Lift 0.420 / 0.420
.050 Duration 204 / 204
LC 110

Milling MTD1
Valve Lift 0.422 / 0.444
.050 Duration 204 / 214
LC 112

Crane Fireball 300A
Valve Lift 0.447 / 0.447
.050 Duration 222 / 232
LC ???
I can not find more informations about this cam?!

Comp Cams 290 A-6
Valve Lift 0.540 / 0.540
.050 Duration 255 / 255
LC 106

Mopar Performance Purple Cam
The only numbers I can find are:
221001
The lift is about 0.555"
Maybe it is the P4120655 ????
Valve Lift 0.540 / 0.540
.050 Duration 257 / 257
LC 110

1.6 rocker arms

So, what is your opinion.
What will be the best choice for my 273 projekt?:burnout:
Click to expand...
 
Wedgy said:
Here are the cams standing for election.

Isky E-4
Valve Lift 0.425 / 0.425
.050 Duration 216 / 216
LC 108

Edelbrock 2177
Valve Lift 0.420 / 0.420
.050 Duration 204 / 204
LC 110

Milling MTD1
Valve Lift 0.422 / 0.444
.050 Duration 204 / 214
LC 112

Crane Fireball 300A
Valve Lift 0.447 / 0.447
.050 Duration 222 / 232
LC ???
I can not find more informations about this cam?!

Comp Cams 290 A-6
Valve Lift 0.540 / 0.540
.050 Duration 255 / 255
LC 106

Mopar Performance Purple Cam
The only numbers I can find are:
221001
The lift is about 0.555"
Maybe it is the P4120655 ????
Valve Lift 0.540 / 0.540
.050 Duration 257 / 257
LC 110

1.6 rocker arms

So, what is your opinion.
What will be the best choice for my 273 projekt?:burnout:
Click to expand...

That's quite a collection. Do you want a solid lifter cam or a hydraulic? What is the engine going in and what do you want the car to do? stock cruiser? hot street? drag race? Some of those cams are quite racy for a 273 and will need big converters if you are running an automatic and some pretty steep gears. Those cams also will need some pretty slick cylinder heads and of course headers and free flowing exhaust to work. What kind of intake have you got? No sense putting a cam in that develops HP @5-7000 if the intake works from idle to 5000 rpm. Lots of questions to be answered.
The Isky E-4 is a solid lifter cam and the specs are pretty close to a stock HP 273 cam. It has a very slight rough idle. It doesn't have enough duration to have much chop or lope. It will work fine with a stock converter and 3:23 or lower numerical gears. The Edelbrock cam is a close copy of the Isky cam only it is a hydraulic. The Melling cam is similar to the Isky and the Edelbrock. It's a hydraulic also and is good for torque and RV use in 318/360's. I like the split lift and duration for 273's especially if you are using stock manifolds. The exhaust valves are opened further and longer to make up for the restriction.
I couldn't find much on the Crane Fireball. I know they are making cams again but don't know whether they've re-introduced the Fireball. Those cams were a $49.95 cheapie back in the 70's and had a bit of duration for a bit of chop at idle. The smaller the motor the more the chop. They were cheap and not big performers. The Comp is a solid cam designed for racing. 255* duration @ .050 will get you around 300 advertised and would be too much for a small cube motor unless you're building a race motor. .540 lift is another reason. The MP cam is in the same league with the Comp. A lot of duration and lift above .525 is awfully big for a small cube motor. Which one would I choose? It depends what you are doing with the motor. toolman
 
chewy said:
In my 273 went with a Racer Brown ST-1.
.450/.450
222@50 Cant remember Lobe Center, will have to look for the cam card.

I've never been dis-satisfied with one of Jim's Cam's.
Click to expand...

Hi Chewy,

the Racer Brown ST-1 is close to the E-4 plus 1.6 rocker arms.
I would get .455/ .455 and 219@50.
Maybe a good choice. Thank you.
 
toolmanmike said:
That's quite a collection. Do you want a solid lifter cam or a hydraulic? What is the engine going in and what do you want the car to do? stock cruiser? hot street? drag race? Some of those cams are quite racy for a 273 and will need big converters if you are running an automatic and some pretty steep gears. Those cams also will need some pretty slick cylinder heads and of course headers and free flowing exhaust to work. What kind of intake have you got? No sense putting a cam in that develops HP @5-7000 if the intake works from idle to 5000 rpm. Lots of questions to be answered.
The Isky E-4 is a solid lifter cam and the specs are pretty close to a stock HP 273 cam. It has a very slight rough idle. It doesn't have enough duration to have much chop or lope. It will work fine with a stock converter and 3:23 or lower numerical gears. The Edelbrock cam is a close copy of the Isky cam only it is a hydraulic. The Melling cam is similar to the Isky and the Edelbrock. It's a hydraulic also and is good for torque and RV use in 318/360's. I like the split lift and duration for 273's especially if you are using stock manifolds. The exhaust valves are opened further and longer to make up for the restriction.
I couldn't find much on the Crane Fireball. I know they are making cams again but don't know whether they've re-introduced the Fireball. Those cams were a $49.95 cheapie back in the 70's and had a bit of duration for a bit of chop at idle. The smaller the motor the more the chop. They were cheap and not big performers. The Comp is a solid cam designed for racing. 255* duration @ .050 will get you around 300 advertised and would be too much for a small cube motor unless you're building a race motor. .540 lift is another reason. The MP cam is in the same league with the Comp. A lot of duration and lift above .525 is awfully big for a small cube motor. Which one would I choose? It depends what you are doing with the motor. toolman
Click to expand...


Hi Toolman,

here are the parts what I am going to use.

Intake
Edelbrock Performer 318/360 small port

Heads
318 heads from 1970. I checked the cc.
To get the right CR of 9.5:1 to 10:1 I have to mill the heads about 0.06".
Porting
1.78" intake valve
1.6" ekhaust valve

The engine is for my 65 Valiant. I will drive the car with a 904 and for the first time with a 7 1/4 rear end (2.76).
But I will change the rear end to a 8 3/4 (3.55).
I will build a hot street car. A time on the strip of ~14.5 to 14 sec. would be perfekt.

Best regards Martin
 
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