360 Help

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Ozcuda

Ozcuda

gotta love a MOPAR
Joined
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Hi Guy's,

I know a this question would have been asked before but all advice would be greatly appreciated.

Here is the low down I have a 360 in a 63 Valiant wagon with 727 & a 3.9 diff so far this is what I have & am about to attemped.

Motor 360 is +40 I have J heads which are getting large valves & porting, polishing & port matched. The bottom end is standard as are the conrods. I am looking at a set of KB 190 Hypo pistons hopping to get comp up to approx 10 to 1 maybe a little more is possible. It also has a set of roller rockers & I am running a Eddy Performance inlet with a 750 Holley vac sec.

Trans is 727 with 2500 stall stage 2 shift kit heavy duty cluches & bands

Rear is LSD 3.9:1

The big question is what cam do you recommend for the drag strip which can still be driven on the street...I am open to solid or hyraulic cams I am not after a ball tearer just something to have some fun with at the strip. last time out it ran a 15sec which I would like to get down to 13.

Thanks Graham.
 
Ozcuda said:
Hi Guy's,

I know a this question would have been asked before but all advice would be greatly appreciated.

Here is the low down I have a 360 in a 63 Valiant wagon with 727 & a 3.9 diff so far this is what I have & am about to attemped.

Motor 360 is +40 I have J heads which are getting large valves & porting, polishing & port matched. The bottom end is standard as are the conrods. I am looking at a set of KB 190 Hypo pistons hopping to get comp up to approx 10 to 1 maybe a little more is possible. It also has a set of roller rockers & I am running a Eddy Performance inlet with a 750 Holley vac sec.

Trans is 727 with 2500 stall stage 2 shift kit heavy duty cluches & bands

Rear is LSD 3.9:1

The big question is what cam do you recommend for the drag strip which can still be driven on the street...I am open to solid or hyraulic cams I am not after a ball tearer just something to have some fun with at the strip. last time out it ran a 15sec which I would like to get down to 13.

Thanks Graham.
Click to expand...

Heres what i did with a 360 awhile back, it was the best SB i owned, super screamer, ran 13.2s in a fully dressed 73 Swinger, that was on the limiter in every gear at 3700ft. Alt. I'm sure you want to keep the 3.91s, but 4.56s ran great in mine.

71 360: .060"
stock rods, ARP bolts, polished crank, everything balanced.
KB190s (.040" quench dome) Final compression was 10.3.1 with .039" FPs
Stock prepped J heads with stock valves.
XE 284H: 507/510 lift., 240/246 dur. @ 50
Hooker comp. headers, RPM air-gap, 750dp.
MP dist., MSD 6AL, timing was 20* int., 36* total, all in by 2200 rpm.
2800 11" (needed more converter, but haveing the 4.56s helped alot)
904 trans, Cheetah RM VB.
8.3/4, 4.56
PS,PB car.

Ran great on pump premium.

The car had all steel, all glass, full int. (with bench seat), full bumpers, you name it, it was there. With me it weighed around 3500 lbs., car had easy 12.9s dialed in @ that Alt. That car was a blaaaaaast to drive!!
 
Grham, depending on the level of porting, I myself would be looking at someing like these Comp Cams.

280H or.
there updated version of the Mopar purple cam,
PP280H which has a slight bit more exhaust duration.
If your heads are ported for higher lifts than .500, the
XE275HL @ .525 lift will add few more pony's under the hood.

These are just some examples from Comp Cams. Remember, theres also Lunati and Huges to look at for some decent off the shelf grinds that will perform well.

All of these cams are in the 230+ @ .050 duration range. I really would not exceed 236 @ .050 with your current set up.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Grham, depending on the level of porting, I myself would be looking at someing like these Comp Cams.

280H or.
there updated version of the Mopar purple cam,
PP280H which has a slight bit more exhaust duration.
If your heads are ported for higher lifts than .500, the
XE275HL @ .525 lift will add few more pony's under the hood.

These are just some examples from Comp Cams. Remember, theres also Lunati and Huges to look at for some decent off the shelf grinds that will perform well.

All of these cams are in the 230+ @ .050 duration range. I really would not exceed 236 @ .050 with your current set up.
Click to expand...

Rumble, why wouldn't you run larger then 230s with the compression he wants & head work? I ran the 284H with those pistons & stock heads, it was fairly mild still IMO, & i ran stock valvetrain, the only thing holding him back are the 3.91 gears for the SB, 4.30 would be about right, plus the 750vs should go too, i think he would benefit with the larger XE for what he's looking for, the XE274H is more sooted for 9-9.5.1 comp., matter of fact, i remember calling Comp cams on this build, when i told them what compression i was going with, they strongly recammended the XE284H, or 285HL.
 
Hey Joe!;

Simple, Information left out of the post leads me to a conservitive cam choice rather than a more aggresive shaft. I would rather have torque than not where it counts more so than not. He's gear ratio is limited and as his stall converter rating.

Also, due to the head flow, a major key in cam choice is not listed but only mentioned that it will be ported inthe future with 2.02 valves.

Since there is missing info;

Car weight
head flow
exact intake, only listed as performance, which means what intake....don't assume now.
actual intended useage of the car beside a basic time frame he wants to run in and driveabilty, the choices are not so good.

Limiting factors like the stall converter and rear end gear ratio will not allow for larger cams to operate as intended. It isn't that he can't install and drive with a larger cam, but it becomes a off balanced package. The compresion ratio is there no doubt.

With 10 extra degress of duration, he'll loose a little low end torque and gain even less at the top end. He'll need a large stall converter (More money) a higher gear ratio (More money) and a possible intake change (What intake is that again?)

I gave a soultion based on the available info and general permeters of what will work for a 13 second area car.

OH, I use 750 cfm carbs on stock 360/400 engines with low compresion and dead cams with stock heads and exhaust manifolds. Though I like to tell people to dump the exhaust manifolds, they insist on it sometimes.

Calling Comp Cams is fine. However, I suggest you call them several times and see how many different answers you get from of course different tech guys. Then call Lunati, Huges, Bullet, Schinder,etc... and see how opinions vary from the exact same description you give them.

OH, with a cam of approx. 240 @ .050, you should be able to run high 12's fully dressed.

In the end, he'll do what he'll do.

I also think of it this way. IF a stock '70 340 can run 14's, then a slightly modified 340 with the basic bolt on's (Intake headers and maybe a carb upgrade) can run high 13's, how much more cam can it take to run a half second?

The OE 340 cam in a large 20+ engine with lots of stroke to aid in torque and a good bit of compresion to back it up and the above listed performance parts added on to it. Even if the intake is a Performer.
 
JoeDust451 said:
Heres what i did with a 360 awhile back, it was the best SB i owned, super screamer, ran 13.2s in a fully dressed 73 Swinger, that was on the limiter in every gear at 3700ft. Alt. I'm sure you want to keep the 3.91s, but 4.56s ran great in mine.

71 360: .060"
stock rods, ARP bolts, polished crank, everything balanced.
KB190s (.040" quench dome) Final compression was 10.3.1 with .039" FPs
Stock prepped J heads with stock valves.
XE 284H: 507/510 lift., 240/246 dur. @ 50
Hooker comp. headers, RPM air-gap, 750dp.
MP dist., MSD 6AL, timing was 20* int., 36* total, all in by 2200 rpm.
2800 11" (needed more converter, but haveing the 4.56s helped alot)
904 trans, Cheetah RM VB.
8.3/4, 4.56
PS,PB car.

Ran great on pump premium.

The car had all steel, all glass, full int. (with bench seat), full bumpers, you name it, it was there. With me it weighed around 3500 lbs., car had easy 12.9s dialed in @ that Alt. That car was a blaaaaaast to drive!!
Click to expand...

I'm so glad I read this thread, everything you had in that motor is on my winter list and you ran right around what I'd like to run and you're at higher elevation, have more weight to move, and I have more converter and a center section with 4.56's tho I like my 3.91's. Sorry I'm excited, I was actually onto something for once lol. Was your cam degreed or simply installed "straight up" ??? Thanks much, no intentions of hi-jacking feel free to pm me.
 
Wigsplitter, you will LOVE the whole combo along with the 4.56s. Being closer to sea level, & if you lighten the car up, get a good converter like a 9.5", you'll be on the back door of 11s i'm sure.
 
I was going to say the XE284H... just make sure the heads are set up for the dual valve springs.
 
Hi Guy's,

Rumbles thanks for the advise I will let you know as soon as the heads are flowed as to what they are capable of & when I get the inlet back I'll get the exact type it is a 4bbl duel plan though.

I will be looking at a cam once I know what the headscan deliver

Gra
 
I have always ran Huges cams and I have a simular set up to yours in my 69 360 Dart. Though I think the performer intake is going to hold you back, I run the LD340 Edelbrock that performs circles around the Performer. This is the link to the cam I have in it. Also you need a good converter, I had Frank lupo built the one in my car.




http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/...ZW5naW5lcw==&level1=Q2Ftc2hhZnQ=&partid=21851
 
Thanks for the input it is all good reading this is a big learning cuvre for me.

I am of the opinion that I will have to buy a new manifold sooner or later but I will run the 1 I have for now.

SGBARRACUDA said:
I have always ran Huges cams and I have a simular set up to yours in my 69 360 Dart. Though I think the performer intake is going to hold you back, I run the LD340 Edelbrock that performs circles around the Performer. This is the link to the cam I have in it. Also you need a good converter, I had Frank lupo built the one in my car.




http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/...ZW5naW5lcw==&level1=Q2Ftc2hhZnQ=&partid=21851
Click to expand...
 
Ok I now have a bit more infomation guys the machine shop doing the heads has called me today with some figures. He said that the J heads are now capable of flowing 530HP & recommends a cam with a lift of .520 to .525. I am also looking at changing to a mechanical cam.

I have been checking out the Hughe's engine site as well as the Comp Cams site & Lunati

Are there eny other cam manufacturers anybody can recommend.

Cheers Graham.
 
I think Crane used to have some good grinds tho they recently went under you may still be able to get parts, check it out, Good luck. Personally I'm going with the comp cam JoeDust451 reccomended and I'll also be using KB190 pistons, should be about 10.5:1cr
 
Oh ok cool!

Was gonna say if your in vic,i could steer you in the right
direction of where to go to get your mopar sorted!

Let us know how you go anyhow!

Cheers
 
This is the cam I am looking at using Comp Cams #20-227-4.

Dur @50 in 231, ex 237 valve lift in.525, ex .525.

What are your thoughts ???

Thanks Graham.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Grham, depending on the level of porting, I myself would be looking at someing like these Comp Cams.

280H or.
there updated version of the Mopar purple cam,
PP280H which has a slight bit more exhaust duration.
If your heads are ported for higher lifts than .500, the
XE275HL @ .525 lift will add few more pony's under the hood.

These are just some examples from Comp Cams. Remember, theres also Lunati and Huges to look at for some decent off the shelf grinds that will perform well.

All of these cams are in the 230+ @ .050 duration range. I really would not exceed 236 @ .050 with your current set up.
Click to expand...

Hey rumble, not to hijack the thread here but that 280H is a single pattern cam right? Is there any advantage/disadvantages to single pattern cams for different horsepower goals and such? I have that same cam in my 340 and im going to run it, but im just wondering the science of the benefits behind the design
 
If the heads have been worked on [ported] and ratios are even, a single pattern cam is perfect.
If you have had no work or equalizing flow ratio then a dual is more fitting, being the case that the exh don't flow with the intake as well as it should.

But total combo makes the diff, see stock exhaust manifolds would make good argument for a dual pattern [more exhaust lift].
 
What he said.

Theres nothing wrong with a single pattern cam, nothing at all. A dual pattern cam helps the exhaust side breath in which it normaly lacks in flow vs. the intake. A dual pattern cam also works well with a ported head but there is a case of to much. It isn't allways the best for the engine.

I myself currently am running a split pattern cam in the stock headed 318. The split is large @ 216 - 228 @ .050 on a 112. This cam is very good for a first step improvement on a 318. (It should be good for mid to high 14's.) Though the current '79 mill lacks comprssion. It could go to 9.5-1 and do very well.

IF I was to use well ported 318 or stockish 360 heads and intake up top the teen, the split I would choose would be less since the heads breath alot better and at a higher RPM. A raming effect would start to take place and would be a bennifit along with the larger higher flowing heads.
(Also understand that the 318 bottom half would have to be updated with higher compresion pistons.) The centerline would also come down to 110. A narrower C-line ad's top end pop. (A few HP) I wouldn't go less than a 110 on a 318 unless it was a circle track car. Street and drag cars would stay there @ 110.
With a basic porting, the split can come down to a 8* split while a very well set of ported heads could come down to 6 or less. If your racing, there is little need to run a split. You may find power with it, you may not. It depends on how far the head is worked.

Racers will spend $200 a pop for a cam to look for a few tenths. For them, it is not a big deal to do this. For the ave. street guy, it's not worth the pains or argument.
 
thanks for the info on the cams guys! makes more sense now! i wasnt sure before what the hole point was
 
Thanks everybody for your input it has been good reading & looks like it has helped other not just me.

Once the motor is back together & in I'll let you know how it runs.

Thanks Graham.
 
Ok Guy's

Finally got the motor back together here is the low down not without a few hick ups. I could not source the KB pistons as KB didn't have them so I ended up with a set of Seal power flat tops which with the 68cc chambers gives me approx 10.3 comp.

The heads are J heads that have been ported & polish & fitted with larger valves they flowed 256 cfm inlet & 185 ex.

The cam I used is a Comp Cam #20-227-4...in 231...ex 237 @ 50 lift in.525...ex.525.

Bottom end is basiclly stock 360 except for some ARP bolts.

Inlet manifold is Eddlebrock Performer duel plan it's been port matched to the heads & I am running a 750 vac at the moment.

Exhaust is standard manifold that have been pro coated

I am running a Accel electronic ignition.

trans 727 stage 2 shift kit 2500 stall

Rear end 3.9:1

The motor has just clocked up 500 miles & still needs to be set up on a dyno which will be done in the next few weeks after Christmas in time for the next race meeting.

We got to the strip on the weekend & here is the best resualt so far (sorry no scanner) here is how the time slip reads

R/T .314
60' 1.922
330' 5.614
1/8 8.702
MPH 79.24
1000' 11.398
1/4 13.681
MPH 98.59

If anybody has any recommendations let me know I'm not chasing miricals just want to run consistant 13's so only need another 1/2 second & I'll be happy.
 
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