372or 416 and why

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earthmover

earthmover

in the tire smoke
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after talking with Bobby a few days ago I have been thinking on a new set up..I thought about the 372 stroker kit that put the 360 crank in the 340,then you have the 416 with the 4" crank..which one do you guys like????and why..now with that being said I have eagle h beams in my motor now so do I buy the kit or just break it up and buy crank and piston whats the best way..I would like to know before I go to far on other project cause I plan to send my heads out to Bobby but need to know which way I am going first....372 kit is like 900.00with eveything/416is 1200.00 with eveything..my block is already 30 with a fresh hone job new cam bearing and freeze plugs..:cheers:
 
All the science thinking, engine dynamics and the pro's and con's aside, the engine size you want is something you'll have to want.

The bottom line is no matter what, it is what you want. Nothing beats cubic inchs period. How well it works for you or what you need it for and how it will be used is another story.

Some people will point to a 408 and site it poorly for it's side wall loading, crummy ratio's vs. a shorter stroke engine.
Then theres the other veiw of just simply having lots-o-cubes for lots-o-torque on demand.

The 360 crank into a 340 block is a very old stroker combo that performs very well and makes very good power that doesn't need any real extra parts tricked out to balance out or max out it's abilty or be curtailed by it.

The 408, will have to have head work done on most any head you have for it due to it's sheer size. It will need alot of port volume to operate well or you will probably curtail the engines performance in RPM and power output. That is easy to do on a stroked small block of this size.

The 372 can use less head and work to the head while still having the abilty to make excellent power. An excellent matching head for a 372 is stock or lightly preped Edelbrock heads or 340/360 heads with some work done to them. Probably in the area not exceeding a good valve job, light bowl work, ending with a gasket match.

(Of course this is a projection based on probablity, actual work needed will be a combo dependent thing and intended useage of the car is another item to the list of which all things must be decided on, worked with and adjusted on.)

In the end, it will be what you really want to do.
 
thanks for the info I really want a nice pump gas freindly car that has power when and if I need it.but at the sametime I dont plan to buy any new heads anytime soon.just use the stuff that I have....I know I will need some new stuff and thats not a problem just dont want to spend a xtra that doest have to be spent also I have some parts that I plan to sale to fund some of the new project.....I read so many time if you have a 340 just sell and get a 360 let the guys use them for the resto. but I have the work already done on this one .. I'd like to make close to 500 as possible so the 372 would be good for that
 
Being the 372 is down 28 cubes, it has a slight disadvantage and it's mostly in torque because of it's cranks stroke. The shorter stroke has the abilty to rev higher, where the HP is made. And as you allready know, it should be a tad cheaper to build and use OEm parts to work well.

While it is nice to say I have 500 HP, IMO, I would look to make as much torque as possible for as long as possible and forget about the actual HP number.
 
so do you think that 500 is possible with j/x heads and 416 .I know the heads will have to be done like I said Bobby is going to get them so I better off wiht the 416 build and hp/tq to go
 
so do you think that 500 is possible with j/x heads and 416
Click to expand...

I think 500 HP is possible with a 273 and 1.88 360 heads, it's a matter of how YOU want to do things.

Ask yourself; What do I want.

I'm just pointing out a few things and hope they help you decided, but I think I just added to the confusment.

If I said the 372 can make 500 HP just as easy but cheaper and at a higher RPM, would that help? Maybe not. But, that is the last I'll say about this.

AGAIN, it is bottom lined at;

What you want. ;)
 
If you are a racer, than either one is fine. If you are a street driver, adn race intermittantly, the longe rthe stroke, the more street friendly that power level will be. In terms of 500hp with X/J/587/etc... All you need to do is throw money in them and they'll work. They can be made to go 280ish at tops, that's enough for 560hp with properly matched parts. The caveat is you still have a 50yr old chamber, and the associated weight and design of that family of head. For less money than it takes most people to get iron heads to perform the same, aluminums can be bought and you get the double bonus of weight and design, plus repairability. I've ported iron heads that were replacements for cracked ones after being maxxed out port work wise... So it becomes a what do YOU feel like deal. 450 is easy on a 4" engine with iron heads that move 240cfm. Thoase heads are stable, and within relative cheap cost (stage two porting with flow test) that will about equal RPMs out of the box. Assuming you are starting with core heads, having neverything they need done by a competent shop, and using comparable performance parts on them anyway. IMO, I'd go with a 4" crank, 450hp expectation and run the iron heads you want. If your goal is 500hp, then go 4" crank, dished Diamond pistons, and RPMs with the standard work. With the right cam on a modern lower end design, they can make 500hp.
 
rumbles right about the rod ratio, it will decrease with the increase in stroke given the rod's length stays the same.
Which means more rod angularity/side load/friction/heat=chevy.lol

But then at 4' stroke that piston gets pretty light, and a light weight piston is a good thing.
And though it will take more cam duration for instance
if it was 284*stock stroke=65-6800rpm +/-
now it will be stroker 300*=65-6800rpm+/-
mopar heads flow good enough to work with upscaled builds such as these.
Yep shy on port volume, but a lot to work with and in the right places a lot to remove material wise 'wink wink'.

If you wanna rev this thing 7000+ rpm and have gears to make it useful to you where ever you may drive it then the 372[steel crank of corse]

If you wanna keep the rpms below 68-7000rpm and even with not so great gears have the power still be useful 416.

If you have all the money in the world to purchase race block, w9 heads, solid roller cam, callies crank and rods, weisco pistons and yadda yadda yadda and are going to rev to the moons boarder, say hi to the martians for me, and of corse in this case you'll have a 6 speed so no worry there then still go 416 .lol
 
LOL, I think your taking the build a bit far there 340val, but theres good thought in what your trying to say. Your right.
500 HP, a true 500 is alot of pony's. Theres a bit of give and take in doing such builds.
 
I agree with Rumble and Moper. Cubic inch for a street engine. But lower your expectations on horsepower if you want to keep the cost in check.
"Speed costs son. How fast do you want to go?"
 
240cfm for a mopar sb head is cake.

These 2.02 X heads that are on my 340 now are barely touched, pretty much bowl blended and push rod pinch opened up but all of the gigantic guide boss is still there and the short turn is only blended, no major laying back.

Photo 166.jpg
 
yup, 240's basically a modern valve job and some cleanup. But RPMs will move that out of the box when you fix the valve job, for about $400 more at my shop. I'll take the weight and better chamber for that $400. And the 500hp will be made much lower than 340's peaks regardless of the stroke. The 4" engines I've played with having good to really good RPMs will pass 500hp around 6K, with peak torque in the 4-4300 range. On pump gas. Very streetable.
 
416.. why?? because i have one and know what they'll do and if you really want some good performance out of the stroker ditch the old iron heads for some Edelbrocks..sure glad i did,won't be using iron heads ever again!!!
 
Hey stroked, those Edel. heads ported on your engine?
(Got flow rates by chance?)
 
thanks guys for the good info.

this is most of what I have

340 work done freeze plug,cam bearing,and hone job
eagle h beams/ bme dome tops plan to sale them
torker intake/x-cel intake plan to get a m1
2set of j heads both has work but plan to send a set out to Bobby
1.5 roller rockers
727 revpatt
91/2 verta from lupo 5000
457 gears
ss springs mp drag shocks
70 duster
got a few more things plan to sell and use some of the funds for the project
 
I run a 372 in my 73 Dart Sport dynoed(452hp)440ftlbs. x heads port and polished with beehive springs and a comp xe284h cam.Great street/strip ran 12.8 at 108..Room for improvement.If you,ve got the money a bigger stroke say..408,416 will get you more hp up over 500hp.I didn,t want to have to put a cage in my car and with the bigger stroke I would have to add strength to the chassis,already tied and slide a link.Car is a 4 speed and hooks hard.At the time of build money was tight.Good Luck with your choice,either way it,s gonna be fast and you,ll have to beef up suspension and rearend.Have fun with your build!!
 
After seeing the rest of the build..............YA think it was.

This is the type of info that would be good to know up front.
 
no its not a bracket car I go to the 1/8 track for time to time now.may would go more often if the car was a little faster than now ..just really disapp. with the way it was running..7.70/89.9mph 1.77/60 but I have talked with alot of people Bobby being the one that got me to understand why the car wasnt 60 and running better..now the motor apart and have the chance to up grade.so I thought I would ask to see the good the bad or what ever...now as far as to what the car is used for mostly would be a few trips to the local store sometimes 5miles then to the local drag 1/8 a few times..so more street than race....
 
I drive it on the street and to shows and meets,but I also load it on the trailor and take it to the track.Not my daily driver.I believe in getting as much use out of it as I can.It sucks our summers are so short..
 
Ya gotta come a few hundred miles south where the summers are longer and the snow isn't deep... or existant.
 
You have it geared and convertored like a bracket car.. That will need to be changed if you go with the longer stroke stuff. You'll be spinning right thru where they really are effective.
 
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