3769973 318 Heads on my new motor

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DusterDaddy

sledgehammer mechanic
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There is so much information about head casting numbers and opinions on what to do with them.

In a fresh 318 mild freshen up ( it's a 74 casting date ), are casting number 3769973 heads with 360 intake valves installed and the heads decked a bit to raise compression a decent way to go? I read somewhere that these heads have the hardened seats.:cheers:

I bought this motor carb to pan it has not be run yet though the workmanship is top notch. I'll post pics when I pick it up this weekend


As for the rest, it has a Hemi grind cam (dont know what brand yet). Lift is is measured around .480 with stock rockers. Probably a little lumpy idle right?

Carb is a Holley 80457 600cfm. Intake is an Edelbrock Performer.

I have a set of 340 manifolds I was going to use and gasket match port them...What size pipes should I get?

Should be fun to drive in a Duster with a 833 4 speed right?

The rear is stock 8 1/4 and the car left the factory with a 904 in it.
Didnt look at the tag on the pumpkin yet but wanted to know if this rear end gearing was going to be OK with an 833?

Any comments will be appreciated, Thanks
 
According to my reference book "How to Hot Rod Small Block Mopars" the heads are 75-76 assembly years with 63 to 69 cc chambers. 1.88/1.6 valves are a nice up grade, cut the chambers to 63 cc's, a thin gasket and you'll be 9+ compression ratio. Headers would be better than the 340 manifolds; sell them to some one doing a resto, pay for the headers. I'd go for more carb, I've done 3310's and 750 DP's on teen's (though it was/is strictly a track car) and not had issues. The Performer works good on a teen; others may disagree. Cam with .480 lift is going to be around 230-235* at .050 with a 4spd it shouldn't pose too much of a problem, could be a fun driver.

Good luck.
 
Thanks JBurch, I was going to put a stock air cleaner on that holley and keep it looking really stock looking under the hood......What do I gain with the headers and is it worth it.
I'm not crazy about headers
 
The bigger valves are a nice upgrade especially if your head shop runs a 60 or better yet 75 degree cutter to open up the bowls. With the larger valves, the cam will seem "bigger" so don't go too nuts on the duration. Something like an XE268 or Voodoo 268 would be about perfect in a big valve 318.
 
OK so here is another question. Given the my 318 is built as I described it, not having any knowledge about mopar drivetrains, if I was to find a non overdrive 833 from early to mid 70's and installed it in my car with a stock 3.23 geared 8 1/4 rear, about how man RPM will the motor be turning at 65 MPH with stock 14" wheels and tires?
And how is first gear going to feel?
 
I had great luck with an 850 Thermoquad off a 440 on my 318 with headers and Holley street dominator , was very quick , kept up with stock 396 camaro and 400 fireturds
 
Depends on the Hp level your looking for stock unported 318 heads are good for 300-325hp, that said I go for a set of EQ's heads cost maybe a little more than having the stock heads redone and probably pick up 30-40hp with the same combo.
 
Drove close to 600 miles round trip to pick up the motor yesterday, and I'm tired but it looks great!
Thanks for letting it go !Cole
 

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Nice find on the engine, Bob.

If the cam has been rotated to remove it from the trans, you should pull those lifters and get some good cam lube on that camshaft. If you use a cone tip on a bottle of cam lube, you can get them ready to go, through the lifter bores, after pulling the lifters, spinning the crank a half turn or so at a time to hit all of it, all the way around.

I'd also suggest putting some on the face of the lifters and oiling the sides, to reinstall. You shouldn't have to remove the cam to do this work. It doesn't look like the parkerizing surface on the cam lobes has been broken in yet, so I don't think it's critical to remove the lifters and keep them in any order, but I would definitely put something on those lobes and lifter faces.

One thing that I found very easy on my build, and I would suggest to anyone doing an engine swap, is to leave the intake off of the engine, if not the cylinder heads (unless they are already in place) when installing.

This will eliminate the need for a balancer, as you can put a sling of chain across two of the intake bots, one on the left or right rear, opposing the front and get the boom of the engine hoist way down into the area where the intake would normally occupy.

When I did this, it eliminated the need to remove the hood from the car, gave me access to the bellhousing bolts from the top side, easily, and most importantly, allowed me to leave the lifters out, to rotate the crank, in order to install the torque converter to flex plate bolts without wiping the break in lube from the cam.

Headers are a good investment on an engine that you plan on running really quickly, but the 340 manifolds are plenty adequate for a street use car.

I hate headers on anything that will be driven on the street, because they are a maintenance nightmare and rob drivability. In my opinion, the occasional gain in MPH and lower E.T. at the track is not worth it on an A body that can use manifolds. Even on a B body, they are cumbersome.

I think you should get a degree wheel and using a solid lifter, or a hydraulic lifter that is blocked shut, so it won't collapse, measure the lobe crank duration on an intake and exhaust.

The lift you gave me, (.327) being actual lobe lift, was this on an intake and exhaust lobe? You want to check for split duration, because that is going to have an effect on flow percentage. If you have a square cam, meaning everything on the intake and exhaust is cut the same, your exhaust will need to be more free flowing and the engine will likely make power at a higer RPM range.

.327 lobe lift is going to look like .490" on a true 1.5:1 rocker arm. Factory rocker arms are closer to 1.45-1.47:1 and you will lose an overall .010" in final lift, from the angle of the pushrod geometry in a small block.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing, because your cylinder heads have a limit on max lift, at the valve guide/ seal to spring retainer. There needs to be enough room for the seal, so it won't crush.

490" is about as far as you'd really want to go on a stock head. Some heads, Hughes Engines calls a maximum of .460" lift, without having the valve guides trimmed shorter, for more clearance/ lift.

In order to know what your engine is going to perform like, it's critical that you get as much information as you can, on the camshaft.

The rest of the engine looks fairly straight forward. If the operator aimed the rings and torqued everything as per the shop manual, I'd say you got a pretty good deal.

One way to kind of cheat and see what sort of pistons you have, is to shine a flashlight into one of the exhaust or intake ports on a valve that is open and peek through the sparkplug hole, to get a good look at the top of the piston. You want to look for a marking near the center of the piston. Numbers usually indicate overbore.

Questions;

What are you going to do with the car?

I built the Scamp for driving. If you are going to run it on the track once in a while, it makes more sense to build power down low in RPM range, because the car will be seeing more of that. Even though the car I'm building will eventually see an 833 OD that I'm building, I want torque on the low end, so Amy doesn't have to play with the clutch a whole lot in traffic. This is also why I opted for the O/D, because the 3.09 will help a lot in stop and go traffic. Makes for a crappy racecar though.

When are you planning on converting the car to a 4spd?

The 8 1/4 should hold up fine, even behind a stick, but if it's going to be years before you go with a stick, you might consider getting a converter to match the cam's torque/power range in stall.

Those heads will fish about 69cc if they have the flat valves. I'm willing to bet they are around 71-72. When I cc'd my '302 swirl port heads, they came up at 62, before I had the milled. They are likely 61 now, but a good goal is around 63-4 for pump gas.

The type of head gasket you use will depend on the piston to deck clearance. You are looking for a quench of somewhere within .039-.035. Given your equipment, the head gasket should respond to the piston's distance to give you the final quench distance, between the piston and close side of the chamber.

That head is an open chamber, but can still make good power.

If that were my engine, I'd be pulling both heads to measure everything and inspect the work done, as well as valve spring retainer to valve stem seal distance and to check for hardened exhaust valve seats. Those are a must, so you don't burn the seats up in short order.

I'd be way too curious on piston size, piston to deck distance, shape of piston and CC of the head, to want to save money on head gaskets. All of those things will tell you how the engine is going to run.

Odds are, it will run just fine without disassembling anything, but it will be a mystery and only trial and error will give you an idea about how to pick the rest of your running gear.

Nice find. Check it out with a mic and see where to go from here!
 
Thanks Dave,
The car is 74 Duster that I bought for $200. The previous owner let it sit outside with no hood and a blown motor for a few years.

My sons and I loved the car when we first saw it. They saw pictures of my 71 Cuda from when I was a kid and their interest was sparked.

We just moved into new home and our garages are full of unpacked moving boxes. So "Misty"( my wife named the car) is at a local self storage that graciously allows us to work on her after 5PM. I have 5 kids so for the time being Wednesday evenings are car work days. The kids and I love it and my little girl digs it so much also,

We want to keep the car looking pretty stock under the hood, but I am totally willing to go for those 360 truck manifolds as you outline for the scamp.
I had headers on my Cuda and your right on they affect street drivability.

The motor in the car had the intake removed and the motor did not rotate. The 904 had a nasty split in the case near the starter, and my guess is something catastrophic happened. Sent both the scrap yard.
the car is nothing more than a roller with good wiring harnesses and an intact front suspension, but no swaybar.

The oil in the rear is clean, and I keep forgetting to look at the pumpkin tag to see what gears I have.

We are in the dis-assembly phase now and are cutting out rusted sections and ordering patch panels.
I am planning to fully remove the dash assembly replace all problematic components while it's out. Windshield has to come out anyway due to a crack and while we are at it the back glass can come out as well.

The car is really at ground zero now so I figure I may as well finally build that 4 speed sporty car I have always wanted. The Cuda was a 727

As I see the car being used, she will come out of the Garage on Sunday morning to go on the bagel run , and of course be the Belle of the Ball at local cruise nights, We lack a solid A-Body presence around here!

Thanks for your insight.
 

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Nice pick up!

Man, let me know if you need anything for that car. Between my friend and I, we've parted out 6 of them. Dusters seem to grow on trees around me. I let a '71 go to the crusher (no time to deal with it, after we picked it clean) and I have a '72 in my storage unit, right now. I have a lot of parts for the '73-'74, including a fold down seat and filler neck. I think I have another grille, somewhere for it as well as a dash, a title for that dash ('74) and some other misc parts (wiring harnesses, taillight lenses, etc.)

I like your idea of running the 318.

My girlfriend Amy came from a big family. She has 5 siblings, one lives out of state. I've known her family for over a decade, never actually met her, up until 2 years ago. Her dad had a few muscle cars and had to let them go, due to lack of time and money. I want to help him get his '67 GTO back that he sold, to fly his later to be wife and five kids from california, after the other "man" of the relationship abandoned them at the airport.

He was ecstatic when I built the Scamp for Amy. It's awesome to see your pursuits working in your favor. If you keep chipping away at it, you'll have an awesome car built for pennies on the dollar, man.

Again, let me know if you need anything for it. I've got everything I need for the Scamp and the '72 I have is a complete car.

One piece of advice I will give anyone, restoring their own car, is to learn how to do body work and paint prep. Even if you're not confident on shooting top coats, if you can get some practice in with primer and bondo, you can save yourself a lot of money. A lot of community colleges offer collision repair courses. That's how I got started. It took a few years for me to tackle things confidently on my own, even with prior mech. knowledge, but it is worth every minute of practice.

Can't wait to see what you do with it!
 
I plan on putting a stock 70s era air cleaner from a 4v on to further reinforce the "stock" theme of whats going on under the hood of the car. Even going to paint the intake the sam corporate blue as the block.

I can't wait to fire it up after the cruise night wraps up and to hear that lumpy idle that cam is going to provide...kinda like a cat who just ate a canary. lol

Im thinking of using one of these HEI type distributors to keep things simple.

Definitely going with Twister Graphics and Vitamin C paint
 

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Any updates?
Lots of 'Car Work Wednesdays' have passed.
 
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