4 1/2 or 5 quarts of oil with 1/2 quart of ZZDP?

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DartGTDan

DartGTDan

'71 Dart GT Fan
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I will be changing the oil & filter in my 318 shortly. My engine builder told me to include a 16 ounce bottle of a ZZDP oil additive with the fresh oil and new filter.

My question is do I use 5 quarts of oil + 1/2 quart of ZZDP additive?

Or, 4 1/2 quarts of oil & 1/2 quart of ZZDP equaling 5 total quarts?
 
Put the additive in then fill the oil to the correct level on the dipstick. 1/2 a quart of additive sounds like lot but a little extra wont hurt anything, especially if its a new engine and your breaking in.
 
Screw all of that!

Joe Gibbs Driven oil already has what you need in it.
AMS oil also has a excellent line.
 
For a lot of reasons, additives aren't a good idea. Buy a fully formulated oil that has what you need in it already. If you're done breaking it in, this has all the ZDDP you need at a good price. It's one of the best deals out there for our cars.
Robot or human?
 
rumblefish360 said:
Does it come in other grades? 10/30?
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No, the xW-30 grades have either significantly less or more ZDDP. The Mobil1 FS 0W-40 is in the lower end of the viscosity range for a grade 40, just a skosh heavier than a 30. So, unless it's critical to have a grade 30, it should be fine.
 
I run VR1, $35 for 5 quarts? prior to that Brad Penn grade 1. Made the change because Brad Penn was sold and questions of quality came up. Also they carry VR1 at my Advance Auto store in town. Solid flat tappet
 
DartGTDan said:
I will be changing the oil & filter in my 318 shortly. My engine builder told me to include a 16 ounce bottle of a ZZDP oil additive with the fresh oil and new filter.

My question is do I use 5 quarts of oil + 1/2 quart of ZZDP additive?

Or, 4 1/2 quarts of oil & 1/2 quart of ZZDP equaling 5 total quarts?
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You do not want to exceed 5 quarts of any product in a stock oil pan other wise you will suffer power loses from windage.
Mix the whole mess together and fill the crankcase to the proper level, keep the rest of it for make up oil.
 
furrystump said:
I run VR1, $35 for 5 quarts? prior to that Brad Penn grade 1. Made the change because Brad Penn was sold and questions of quality came up. Also they carry VR1 at my Advance Auto store in town. Solid flat tappet
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VR-1 is a good choice. I can't get the 10W-30 for less than $10/qt in my area. If you can find the 5 qt container, it'll be a lot less than that.
 
S'cuder said:
VR-1 is a good choice. I can't get the 10W-30 for less than $10/qt in my area. If you can find the 5 qt container, it'll be a lot less than that.
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I run 20W/50 don’t ask why, there is no real good reason other than 15 years ago I got a case of 20w/50 brad penn and ran it. It worked and I just keep running it. Leaving power on the table moving that maple syrup? Maybe. It’s like the stuff in your wallet, no idea why, but not changing.
 
DartGTDan said:
I will be changing the oil & filter in my 318 shortly. My engine builder told me to include a 16 ounce bottle of a ZZDP oil additive with the fresh oil and new filter.

My question is do I use 5 quarts of oil + 1/2 quart of ZZDP additive?

Or, 4 1/2 quarts of oil & 1/2 quart of ZZDP equaling 5 total quarts?
Click to expand...

May be just my OCD issues but I would mix the oil and additive together with a drill and paint paddle prior to adding it to the engine. Not claiming this is the only way. Just my two cents./
 
I formulated engine oils for Chevron for 18 years. The issue with new oil for passenger cars (called PCMO, Pass Car Motor Oil) is that the OEM's are concerned about Cat Convert poisoning. The Phosphorus in ZnDTP (Zinc DithioPhosphate) is a poison to the metals in the Cat. However HDMO (Heavy Duty Motor Oil) has the right level of ZnDTP to let cams last. If you get brands like Chevron Delo 400, Shell Rotella T, or other oils with the API CJ-4, CK-4 classification along with API SN or SP. The C is for Commercial, and the S is for Service (old term). Oils meeting both classifications have at least 12 millimoles Phosphorus (chemical way to say concentration). PCMO's have about 6-8 millimoles. I have used Delo 400 in everything from a 426 Hemi to my 340 that I have had for 53 years. Got over 220,000 miles on a Jeep GC 5.2L and the engine never burnt any oil. 3000 mile oil changes help too.
WalMart has the HDMO at a good price (although recent price increases have hurt!)
Use SAE 15W-40 or try to get SAE 10W-30, but that may be only from a commercial oil jobber.
 
As 65TerrorCuda said, putting in aftermarket additives may not be a good thing. A little extra ZnDTP probably won't hurt, but engine oils are extensively tested to prove performance under extreme conditions and have to both protect from wear and keep the internal parts clean. That is why oil has to be drained. Don't believe the "Thermal Oxidative Breakdown" claims. That only happens when you let the oil stay in the car way too long. I have many horror stories from Chrysler lubricant engineers about turbo failures in 2.2L engines (back in the '90's) due to no oil changes.
 
Barracuda Bob, thanks for sharing truths. I'd like to add a couple of small details.
RLF Cuda said:
If you get brands like Chevron Delo 400, Shell Rotella T, or other oils with the API CJ-4, CK-4 classification along with API SN or SP.
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Not too long ago, Shell discontinued the practice of dual rating many HDEOs. This was done to encourage use as primarily intended, and avoid mis-application. Popular grades of Rotella like 15W-40 and 5W-40 rated API CK-4 won't show an "S" rating. Not to worry, they still have the necessary anti-wear additive and perform well in our engines.

RLF Cuda said:
Don't believe the "Thermal Oxidative Breakdown" claims.
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30 years ago, Castrol pushed that idea pretty hard in their marketing. They were unable to produce a 5W-30 that could meet API SH, so they scared people into using 20W-50 to avoid "viscosity and thermal breakdown." Remember the commercials with the tach at redline? It was a load of garbage, but it resonated with people and has become part of the oil misinformation mythology.
 
Correct S'Cuder,
Current engine oils are designed to last perhaps up to 10,000 miles between drains and therefore are highly over-formulated for engines like the older ones we are dealing with. The big issue today is timing chain wear as so many designs with OHC run very long timing chains that can stretch even a little and throw off timing. So there is a specific engine test required now under API specifications to show that the oil can protect against that wear.
Currently, the testing protocol for certifying a PCMO package is probably $2 million each product that is licensed under API. GM has its own certification under DEXLOS that is a step above API certification. Any oil with Dexlos label will be essentially a synthetic or the performance equivalent thereof. No need to spend any more money on a name brand product. If it has a Dexlos approval, it is overkill for all modern engines. Just don't use SAE 5W or 0W-20/30 oils in older slider follower engines.
 
RLF Cuda said:
Currently, the testing protocol for certifying a PCMO package is probably $2 million each product that is licensed under API.
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And that's a huge expense any way you look at it. It's also one of the reasons that high end, small batch blenders like Driven, Amsoil, HPL, etc. don't certify and don't display API certs on their labels. They all make great products, overkill for 99.9% of what's on the road. But while they're great lubes for extreme vehicles, they're just not a good value for most folks. If they had to add in the cost of API certifications spread out over their small volumes, the price would be astronomical.
 
ASTM, API, SAE, and the like are technical organizations that set up specifications for essentially everything in life. Fuels, Lubricants, cement, plastics, electrical products, you name it. They are there for a reason. To give the consumer exactly what they want and/or need for things to function. But they do favor the large producers that can afford to run tests to meet the specifications and register the products. Small producers, e.g., specialty oil blenders, can't or don't want to meet these requirements. Actually, API eliminated the older engine oil requirements to keep those high ZnDTP products off the market to prevent misuse in modern engines. Much to the distress of people owning older engines.
So much of this is driving by Fuel Economy and every tightening emission standards.
 
Some of you younger guys may think I am nuts but with me being ole school in Mopars, for the last 30+ years I have been adding a bottle of STP, which contains Zinc, at every oil change and to this date I have had not 1 problem with any internal parts running metal on metal or any internal parts failing.
 
STP is simply an oil thickener. Chemically, it is polyisobutylene, or at least in the past it was. This thickens oil viscosity and probably raises the oil by at least one viscosity grade. SAE 30 becomes SAE 40, for example. It doesn't hurt anything but fuel economy but may increase the time to pump up oil pressure when very cold. Say -10 to -20°F. The added ZnDTP will not hurt though.
 
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