4 bbl intake 273

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Jake lagrange

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I know this question has been asked a million times but all
The threads I see are for 65 cuda's I have a 69 Dart 273 2 bbl. I want a 4 bbl, I thought I had my hands on a lb4d but it slipped away and I can't find anymore. What's a good 2nd place 4bbl intake manifold for my car? Also any recommendations on a 550 cfm carb? I'm looking at I dare say the edlebrock 1406.
 
I know this question has been asked a million times but all
The threads I see are for 65 cuda's I have a 69 Dart 273 2 bbl. I want a 4 bbl, I thought I had my hands on a lb4d but it slipped away and I can't find anymore. What's a good 2nd place 4bbl intake manifold for my car? Also any recommendations on a 550 cfm carb? I'm looking at I dare say the edlebrock 1406.

You can get the later 273 4bbl iron intake that has the correct bolt angle and hole size for the later heads. They come up for sale here.

Now for torque, I also recommend (but lots don't) the Edelbrock SP2P. It's a small port 4 bbl aluminum intake that will support a small (600cfm down) Carter (my favorite) or Holley square bore, or Thermoquad spreadbore, carb.
 
How come a lot don't recommend it? I have a nice strong running car I just want her to be able to jog a little faster.
Due to it being introduced in the late 70's/early 80's, some people think it's an emissions manifold, which it is not. It's not a race manifold, like a Torker, etc, would be, but if you have a relatively stock to mild 273/318, it will work fine. An LD4B might be the best manifold for your application, but if you can't find one, I like the SP2P. Sometimes less is more, y'know?
 
What gears are you running? Automatic? and stall?
The 4bbl by itself won't do much until it flows more than the 2bbl.
A 2bble is usually good to, lessee;
(200ish-cfm x 3450)/273=2500rpm; so says the math.
Lessee;
If you had small 14s(25.5 tall) and 2.73 gears and a 904, that might be 27mph.
If you had 3.55s, it might be 20.5mph.
If you had 3.91s it might be 18.5mph.
If you need more jog below this, your 273 will want more TC first.

On my 73-318 stock long block,I loved a 2800 and 3.55s......Then the TQ moan.
Hang-on, I ran the A998 behind that for a starter gear of 2.74x3.55=9.73. To match that performance,you would need 3.91s. Oh wait I have at least 400 pounds on you, so back to the 3.55s.
IMO, it would be better to put the money into the TC at this point.Even keeping the 2bbl.And with the torque-slope of the stock longblock, IMO a 2400 is not enough;but, I don't know your driving style or intended use. I just know I loved the 2800.
And, I would up the gears a minimum of 20%, to a maximum of 3.55s,for a streeter that occasionally hits the highway.
If you did these both at the same time, you better take it easy the first time you floor it! I would make sure the LSD is working, and HANG-ON!
 
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The SP2P is supposed to "run out of air" at 4500 but that was on a 318 in a truck and the guy had mudders on it anyway so it was a beast down low. You may love it! You got a 69, how about just a Performer? yours has the standard intake bolts so you can use whatever. Most AL 4bbl intakes have the 360 sized ports, just be aware.
 
The SP2P is supposed to "run out of air" at 4500 but that was on a 318 in a truck and the guy had mudders on it anyway so it was a beast down low. You may love it! You got a 69, how about just a Performer? yours has the standard intake bolts so you can use whatever. Most AL 4bbl intakes have the 360 sized ports, just be aware.
Unmodded SP2P and LD4B's are small port.
 
Any 67 up 318 intake will work on your 273. 340 intakes will also work but have larger ports. I don't like the sp2p intake, because the runners are so small, it stops pulling about 4,500 rpm. It boosts torque on the bottom end, but I like a 273 to pull higher than 4,500. I'd have any 4 barrel intake over a 2 barrel though. Edelbrock carbs are fine but if using a 66 or 67 original 273 intake you have to open up the secondary bores or use an adapter.
 
Everything about the car seems stock, so the 273 is bolted to a torqueflight 3 speed 1st is 2.45:1 2nd is 1.45:1 3rd is 1.00:1, also the car is a small block, I'm not overly mechanically inclined yet however comma I can definitely figure stuff out. So you recommend some change to gearing a torque converter stall converter thing?
 
Everything about the car seems stock, so the 273 is bolted to a torqueflight 3 speed 1st is 2.45:1 2nd is 1.45:1 3rd is 1.00:1, also the car is a small block, I'm not overly mechanically inclined yet however comma I can definitely figure stuff out. So you recommend some change to gearing a torque converter stall converter thing?
I do yes.
If you want more jump off the line, and if you cannot spin both tires;then, the absolute best, and probably cheapest thing that you can do for the littlest LA, is a looser TC.
The factory low-stall is a nod to economy. I'm guessing the factory tires were about 24 inchs tall. With a 2.73 rear gear, and 1750 stall TC, this might put down 100ftlbs x 2.45x2.73=669 ftlbs to the pavement. That is a pretty mellow take-off. I think street-performance starts around 1200ftlbs. So there is a lot of improvement to be had right there.
1200 is 79% more than what you might currently have, and 1200 will spin both 245s; so maybe that is more than you need.Perhaps you would be happy with 30%,or 40% more. That would be say 669 x 1.35=903 ftlbs
To get that, you would need some combination of more power and gears. Since the factory TC is about 1750, the fastest way to more power is to rev the engine up a little higher. To get the 903 with 2.73s would take 903/(2.73x2.45)=135 ftlbs, about 35 more than she might currently be putting out. I'm guessing a true 2250 would get you there.
But my math says your current hi-way cruise rpm is 2485 at zero slip, so depending on the wind,or terrain, and chassis, it could be up to say,150 rpm either way. So then if the rear gear is staying,and hi way fuel mileage mattered to me, then, a 2400 would be my logical pick. This will put your engine up nearer to or even at the torque-peak,which I can't recall offhand but I would guess it to be over 200 by 2400. If it was, then 200 x 2.45 x 2.73 =1337 ftlbs, and magically you are in tire-spinning power; both of them, with a 2bbl. So don't be spinning just one all the time, you will wear out the spider gears in no time.
You could achieve similar results with more gear and less TC,and it may cost about the same but is more labor intensive,IMO.
For instance, upping the rear gear to say 3.23s is a 20% improvement.
The engine torque now required would be ;
1337/(3.23 x 2.45) =169 ftlbs. This might be doable at 2200 say. Your cruise rpm would rise to 2940=65 tho, at zero slip.
However 3.23s will rip through the rpm band at a much faster rate, and your car will be way quicker in zero to 60 times. So which method, or both, is kindof dependent on what you want from the car.
and she's still a 2bbl.
With 3.23s and the 2500 rpm from my earlier post, this is now 19ish mph, about where the 2bbl starts running into a problem passing air. So NOW the 4bbl will start earning it's keep. This does not mean that at 2500 your 273 will hit a wall. Not at all. I have taken that carb to 5500 many a time, and in second gear as well,and on 318s, and on a 340 even!
If you really want to get to 60 in a hurry, then 3.23s are the ones to install. 60mph will be; 1/{(60x1056x3.23x1.45)/tire rollout} x 1.05TC slip= about 4130rpm. And, the 4bbl will be a little quicker.3.55s will also be quicker, but may require a shift into Drive, before 60, to stay out of lifter pump-up.

So, to recap, if it was my project, I would stick a 2250 in there with 3.23/3.55 gears and call it done.
A 4bbl might add 15ish hp, and would work better with,optional dual exhaust and large-dump iron manifolds. I would strive to find a small port dual-plane and a very small 4bbl.
Alternatively, I might (cuz I have one) try a 360 2bbl van set-up (carb and large-port intake), with the big Holley 2 bbl. I have had good success modding them. The slow-jet may have to be increased, as they are pretty lean from the factory.

Just FYI;
At 4100 your 273 might be looking for
(273x4100)/3450 x .65VE =211cfm.
I guessed at the .65VE. If the engine was able to pull a .75VE, then she would want 243cfm. I think the smallest 4bbl out there is a 390 Holley.Which is probably getting close to double what you need.
Again that doesn't mean it is waay too big.It will be just fine.
A 650 tho, at 8/1 compression, might be a bit of a bear to tune,
A 500AVS could be made to work pretty good. Just tighten up the airdoor until the bog goes away,lol.
Keep in mind tho that the hp increase with the 4bbl is a gradual increase beginning at 2500 ish and continuing to build with rpm. So you might get an increase of 1hp@2550@18mph/first gear,building to around 15@4000@34mph,still in first gear.Unless you spin the tires, and the engine gets into the rev-limiter,lol. Then you can have full power at like 2mph. If that happens you really need to do something about it, especially if you are peg-legging it!
As for me, I would probably just stay with the 2bbl, if it's in good shape.
 
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so what ratio do reccomend sir? This car I'm never gonna probably be driving over 80, it does go on he highway so id like about 70 maintable without the engine screaming but also I'd like it to get there faster than it does now. You said 3.55 for first leave the other two
The same? Or do a 3.55, 2.45,1.45 with a 2800 stall? (I'm sure you've guessed by now but all I know about tranny's is I shift and I go faster.)
 
so what ratio do reccomend sir? This car I'm never gonna probably be driving over 80, it does go on he highway so id like about 70 maintable without the engine screaming but also I'd like it to get there faster than it does now. You said 3.55 for first leave the other two
The same? Or do a 3.55, 2.45,1.45 with a 2800 stall? (I'm sure you've guessed by now but all I know about tranny's is I shift and I go faster.)
Jake you are in trouble..
To be happy at 70 you already are maxed out with a 2.73 rear gear. These will get you 70@2720 with zero-slip, so perhaps as much as 150 rpm less on a good day. So you then are stuck with TC to get off the line, where perhaps the biggest time improvement may lie; and/or the aforementioned 4bbl to fill in the speed from 18ish mph to 70mph.
Now if she is fast enough for you to say 20 mph, then the only choice you have is more power. And the 4bble WILL help you with that.It ain't much in your combo, but every little bit helps I guess.
But to get off the line a lil quicker to 20 mph, well, that would be the job of the TC. I like a 2800 with a 318, but that might be a lil much for your 273. IMO, a 2250 will be a big improvement over a 1750. And a 2500 yet better. And neither are a hindrance to fuel economy at 70 mph with 2.73s.
>But I gotta tell you, a good TC, and a 4bbl set-up could cost you more than a good used 318-2bbl. Which is huge boost in power and torque, and then both the 1750TC and the 2.73 are perfect. Oh, and the 2bbl can stay too.
IIRC there is about a 50 hp difference between these two,similarly built. This would easily be over three times what the 4bbl and the TC could do for the 273.And the increase is from zero mph, all the way to 70 mph, no waiting for the 4bbl rush. There will be a slight economy penalty tho.
 
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I see that you may be confused about gearing. The transmission has three gears which you cannot easily change, and you already know about them. They are 2.45,1.45,and 1.00. What these ratios do is multiply the engine's power by those numbers and send it on down to the rearend. Inside the rearend the power is multiplied some more,and then gets turned sideways, and finally sent out to the wheels.
Now, the rearend ratios are much more easily changed and come in about 5% to 10% steps, from 2.73 to well into the 5s This number means that whatever power is coming out of the transmission gets multiplied by this number, and is therfore called a ratio. So if 1 hp comes out of the transmission, in the rearend it can be multiplied by 2.73, or more, all the way to 5 times and more.
The penalty for all this multiplication,is that the rpm of the input to the rearend is also multiplied by this same ratio. So if the output rpm from the rear end is 1 rpm, then the input will be 2.73 rpm, or more,depending on what gear ratio is inside of it.
The rearend is always trading rpm input for power output.
So you need to decide how much rpm you are willing to put up with at 70 mph. This is your decision to make. From that decision, it possible to back-calculate what rearend ratio it takes to make that rpm. And from that ratio, it is possible to estimate a performance increase.
If the power curve of the engine is known, then it is possible to even calculate the power increase to the road, with the new rearend ratio.And the new road-power curve, will be a curve similar to the original, just more of it; higher up on the graph. Right from the stall speed to the blow-up rpm, the curves will be similar in shape. This you will really feel. Not like the 4 bbl which does not act this way.The 4bbl adds a little bit at the bottom rpm, when it begins to open, then adds more and more continuously as the rpm rises.
The only other thing that you can do to your engine that will make it feel this way, is to make it bigger, or to supercharge it.
Hence my allusion to the teener. And to cost.
Hope that helps
 
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I really appreciate the info, to be honest 80% of the time this car stays at 55 or under. Her 0-20 isn't disappointing but her 0-55, 60 time is cute she seems to give up a little in 2nd gear
 
I really appreciate the info, to be honest 80% of the time this car stays at 55 or under. Her 0-20 isn't disappointing but her 0-55, 60 time is cute she seems to give up a little in 2nd gear
Yeah, that is because she is small.
Have you tried reving it a little higher in first before shifting? If you can achieve satisfactory acceleration by manually holding it in a lower gear for a little longer,then the automatic upshift may be easily or cheaply changed; and this will be way more effective than the 4bbl.
 
After about... if say 25-30'in first gear she falls flat on her *** and I'll shift it up to 2nd... I don't do this much only if a girl is looking at me haha. And than in 2nd at about 45-50 she falls flat again than third I haven't went past 85 because I don't wanna break it.
 
There is your problem
27.5 mph with 24" tall tires and a 2.73 rearend is about 2700 in first gear.
But
it is 1600 in second, or perhaps stall speed if a 1750 TC is in there. Well at that low an rpm,that poor 273 ain't got much.And a 4bbl will not help it one tiny bit at these rpms.
Next 47.5 mph is 2800 in second, but
it is 1920 in to third, and now the 273 is bucking the wind, and so deviding it's power between that and the chassis.

So there is a very simple solution to this, and that is to get the transmission to stay in each gear a little longer until you find a satisfactory rate of acceleration, that is doable by the stocker. edit; by the stock engine.

Here is what you need to do;
A) Go make sure your 2bbl carb is opening all the way when someone else floors it inside from the drivers seat! As in, the floor mat is not in the way,lol, or the throttle cable is misadjusted, or something else is preventing the throttles from opening ALL the way.
B) Go figure out what your rearend gear ratio is. I have been assuming it is a 2.73 or 2.76 or a 2.7something,lol. If you need help, see below.
C) but if it is not a 2.7 something then STOP!, do not continue! Report back and I will have to recalculate the speeds. If you have a tachometer, then you can do continue but do not exceed 3800rpm. I do not know if your old 273 can take more than 3800.
E) if it is a 273 rearend;Then go for a drive, and hold it in first gear until 38mph before you manually upshift into second. This will be about 3800 rpm. When it shifts into second it will be at about 2250rpm. Let it climb up out of that hole, and hold in second until 65 mph,then upshift it into Drive. 65 will be 3800 again.
Now if that rate of acceleration is fast enough for you, then we will have to adjust the tranny to make it happen by itself.

)To figure out the rearend ratio;Plan A
1)Block the front wheels so the car cannot roll, even the tiniest bit.
2)put the car in neutral
3)release the park brake.
4)Then, jack up one rear wheel, and block up the car so you can safely reach the rear end. Do not shimmy underneath the car without a safety block of some kind near to the rear wheel opening,but under the frame.Be safe;block up the car!
Ok, now grab the tire and rotate it. If it turns then grab a sharpie, and shimmy under there. If it doesn't turn you have a SureGrip go to plan-B
5)Turn the pinion yoke so it is pointing out somewhere towards the jack,where you can see it from out there. Put an index mark on the yoke with the sharpie and another mark adjacent to it on the rearend. Ok now crawl outta there, and go over to the hanging-down wheel. Have a peek at the marks you made,can you see them, and are they still lined up? If not,make them so.
6)Now, grab a chunk of 2x4 or or a similarly sized cardboard box, or anything that can span the distance between the bottom of the tire and the ground under it.Lay it flat beside the tire.Make a sharpy mark on the tire at the bottom most point, and a mark adjacent to it on whatever item you laid down there. One more time check the marks under the car.
7)Ok, what you are gonna do now is turn the tire exactly one revolution, while simultaneously counting the number of turns that the yoke on the rearend makes. Be precise! You will get a number between 5 and maybe 7. Go!
If you get lost turn the tire backwards to the beginning point and start over.
8) Finally, divide the number by two to get the rearend ratio. You should get a number close to one of these;2.7,2.9,3.2 or perhaps 3.5. So if you didn't get one of these, Do it over.
9) be safe;block up the car!

Plan B
1) you will have to get both wheels in the air. And
2)do not divide by 2 in step 8 above.The number of turns will be the rearend ratio. Be precise.There is very little difference between some of the gear ratios; less than 1/3 of a turn in most cases. If you give me erroneous numbers, and your engine blows up, that is on you. You may have to shimmy back under there, to find the difference between 2.7 say and 2.9 ratios
3) be safe! block up the car!
 
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Stocker;As originally designed by the manufacturer
What was the post #, I can check the context,
Found it ;post#18 near the top
Doable by the stock 273 engine.
You can dream about rapid acceleration like 440 but the stock 273 ain't ever going there,lol
 
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You can dream about rapid acceleration like 440 but the stock 273 ain't ever going there,lol

I agree w/AJ here...the 273 will never be a 440, performance-wise, so if that's what you desire, I'd suggest building a 360, or a 360 stroker (408 cu.in.), or go big block.

Most of us 273 owners still have the 273 in the car because we want to keep our cars original.
 
I know my car will never be a race car, no matter how much I wish I could turn it into one and keep it as it is from
The factory. However I would like the ability to make a Honda Civic driver feel dumb every now and again.
 
Yea I know haha I did drive a 440
Satellite not too long ago and it make my eyes a little too big. I just want my Dart to be able to make a Some civic with a fart can feel dumb every now and again. I really appreciate the time and info you gave me. I'm still pretty new at the whole do it yourself game besides basic maintenance. Thanks again man I really appreciate it.
 
Yea I know haha I did drive a 440
Satellite not too long ago and it make my eyes a little too big. I just want my Dart to be able to make a Some civic with a fart can feel dumb every now and again. I really appreciate the time and info you gave me. I'm still pretty new at the whole do it yourself game besides basic maintenance. Thanks again man I really appreciate it.

You're very welcome. If you want a fairly docile street car that can blow the doors off almost any Civic, and a bunch of others, AND YOU HAVE THE DOUGH, I would suggest building, or have built, a 408 stroker. Gobs and gobs of torque(which you need to beat the Civics), not a whole lot of changes to accomodate the engine (it is a small block still), and you could dress it up like a 273 Commando/Charger and tell the Civic driver that after you clean his clock!:thumbsup::lol:
 
First, I'd suggest getting a 3.23 or 3.21 gears in the rear. Actually a Thermoquad or Quadra Jet carb works well with their small primaries and adjustable secondary air valve on a 273.
 
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