400/450 stroker....Cheap parts, lotta work.

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Buddy was an Oldsmobile nut, way back, when a 350 Rocket could be bought for $100, or so. Had a couple crankshafts lined up along the wall in his garage and evidently the dog or brother, knocked one over. It laid there what was supposed to have been a short period!, and relaxed to the point of it being junk. Picked up that crank and tried to set it upright and it would no longer sit on the rear flange, without falling, in the direction it was bent.
 
mygasser said:
it's like if you rebushed all your front suspension and torqued all the bolts while the car's still in the air. when you put it down on it's wheels the bushings are all twisted and under tension. the principle's the same, at least that's how i see it.
neil.
Click to expand...

I don't think its the same in your analogy. You've induced "pre-load " in your bushings. Look up "sag" in terms of dial indicator readings, this is probably in alignment with hanging an engine on an engine stand. J.Rob
 
IQ52 said:
I was told by an engine builder that if you put the main caps in the registers on a small block Chevy and put the bolts in loosely, then torqued the heads down, some of the caps would fall. Install and torque the intake manifold and when you're finished all the main caps would be hanging loose. I never tried it.

Do I believe hanging the block by four bolts on the back of the block could distort it.........yes I do.
Click to expand...

If that is actually true then I'd have to say the cap register was beat out and outside of tolerance or that is one flimsy block or he used an impact to torque the heads and vibrated them loose. Pretty sure that ain't gonna happen on a DART Little M or equivalent. I don't build engines to that "Nth" level to have it enter the picture anyways. J.Rob
 
My take on the engine hanging on the stand thing is........
The block wasn’t machined while it was hanging on the stand....... and it won’t be running in the car hanging off the stand.......so..... not something I’m worrying about.
 
PRH said:
My take on the engine hanging on the stand thing is........
The block wasn’t machined while it was hanging on the stand....... and it won’t be running in the car hanging off the stand.......so..... not something I’m worrying about.
Click to expand...

Totally agree I was just providing an explanation for the Chevy cap thing--I figured everyone would arrive at your conclusion automatically. J.Rob
 
RAMM said:
Totally agree I was just providing an explanation for the Chevy cap thing--I figured everyone would arrive at your conclusion automatically. J.Rob
Click to expand...

Hey I once had a /6 that the crank wouldn't turn at all until all caps were torqued properly--and no it wasn't on a stand it was flat on a bench. Block distortion is the only thing I can come up with. J.Rob
 
I just threw it out there as I've always been curious. didn't mean to start another argument. lol
 
Right J.Rob. Seems like there is a consensus of opinion on the subject. And I for one am glad it's all been sorted out 'cause I lost a lot of sleep over it last night.
 
RAMM said:
Hey I once had a /6 that the crank wouldn't turn at all until all caps were torqued properly--and no it wasn't on a stand it was flat on a bench. Block distortion is the only thing I can come up with. J.Rob
Click to expand...

I’ve seen a number of various stock type builds, running factory type clearances....... where the cranks either didn’t turn, or didn’t turn easily...... until the caps were properly torqued.

I’ve honed some SBC blocks from circle track motors built by other shops that were here for freshening.
We do them with the main caps installed and torqued.
You could easily tell when you were doing one that was finished honed without the caps on it originally.
There would be lots of fluctuations in the load meter when you got near the bottom of the bores.
 
IQ52 said:
Right J.Rob. Seems like there is a consensus of opinion on the subject. And I for one am glad it's all been sorted out 'cause I lost a lot of sleep over it last night.
Click to expand...

Lost sleep over what? :rofl:
 
Y'all over there at IQ52 land seem bored, keep building engines for nuffin. When you're done with this one I'll send the block & parts over there and you folks can just put this one together for fun. I won't charge you a cent.
 
Here is a crappy picture of the burette I use to cc cylinder heads.

400-450 head assy 022.JPG


I used water as a medium for measuring the volume for years because that is what Dad used as I was growing up. Then I noticed that I was gradually getting rust speckles inside of the burette. All the grinding in the shop was getting iron particles in the air and some of it was falling into the burette and the water was causing it to rust. Maybe I should have rinsed it better, I don't know.

Then in 2010 I was working on an engine collaboration with Chenoweth Speed and Machine in Morton, IL. At their shop they were using rubbing alcohol with, I guess, a food color in the alcohol. Since 2010 I have used the alcohol and food coloring and no more rust in the burette.

If you spill alcohol it evaporates fairly quickly. So I wondered if evaporation out of the burette would effect the volume I was reading as I measured the cylinder head. What to do?

I know, I'll fill the burette, drain it from 0 at the top down to 84 cc's and see how many cc's evaporate over time and how much time it takes. I come back in a few minutes and it reads 83.8 cc's! There is more volume left in the burette than when I first checked. A few minutes more and it now reads 83.6 cc's. It isn't evaporating and giving me a reading of 84+ cc's, it's going the other direction! What if I wait a few hours? Still 83.6 cc's. I did not lose medium...I've gained it. Where is it coming from?

Well I'm slow, but I'm not at dead stop. I figure it's draining down the inside of the burette and slowly filling the burette back up.

I call the burette manufacture and ask how long I have to wait before I read the burette before I get a accurate reading?

"Nobody has ever asked that before."

"Well, how long?"

"I don't know."

I now wait until I have drained the first combustion chamber, cleaned the plexiglass and valves, blown the sparkplug dry, and set up for the next combustion chamber and then read the volume for the last combustion chamber I measured.

.4 of a cc might be critical someday.
 
Last edited:
I'll probably hate myself for using these valve springs I took off of some OOTB Indy EZ heads. Spring pressures are all over the planet. I've had to use a lot of different spring shims to correct the pressures. Cheap parts, lotta work. I'm using some softer springs to break in the cam and lifters. Every final spring has been designated to a specific valve and is marked on the box so when we change over to them, after break in on the dyno, they'll be over the correct amount of shims. I just randomly placed the break in springs on the valves because that will be good enough for the no more than 3,000 rpm for break in.
400-450 head assy 019.JPG


I have to measure each valve, retainer, lock and spring locator combination and keep them together for that chamber.
400-450 head assy 002.JPG


Take the mic and retainer and set the spring tester to zero, then put a spring with the retainer on the tester and measure the height that gives me the correct seat pressure I want. Subtract the second measurement from the first and that gives me the amount of shims to put under the spring locator.
400-450 head assy 007.JPG


My old aluminum mic is a bit worn and checking the mic with the dial caliper says the mic reads .010" longer than what it actually is. I need to be smarter than the mic. God help me please.
400-450 head assy 005.JPG
 
IQ52 said:
Here is a crappy picture of the burette I use to cc cylinder heads.

View attachment 1715716749

I used water as a medium for measuring the volume for years because that is what Dad used as I was growing up. Then I noticed that I was gradually getting rust speckles inside of the burette. All the grinding in the shop was getting iron particles in the air and some of it was falling into the burette and the water was causing it to rust. Maybe I should have rinsed it better, I don't know.

Then in 2010 I was working on an engine collaboration with Chenoweth Speed and Machine in Morton, IL. At their shop they were using rubbing alcohol with, I guess, a food color in the alcohol. Since 2010 I have used the alcohol and food coloring and no more rust in the burette.

If you spill alcohol it evaporates fairly quickly. So I wondered if evaporation out of the burette would effect the volume I was reading as I measured the cylinder head. What to do?

I know, I'll fill the burette, drain it from 0 at the top down to 84 cc's and see how many cc's evaporate over time and how much time it takes. I come back in a few minutes and it reads 83.8 cc's! There is more volume left in the burette than when I first checked. A few minutes more and it now reads 83.6 cc's. It isn't evaporating and giving me a reading of 84+ cc's, it's going the other direction! What if I wait a few hours? Still 83.6 cc's. I did not lose medium...I've gained it. Where is it coming from?

Well I'm slow, but I'm not at dead stop. I figure it's draining down the inside of the burette and slowly filling the burette back up.

I call the burette manufacture and ask how long I have to wait before I read the burette before I get a accurate reading?

"Nobody has ever asked that before."

"Well, how long?"

"I don't know."

I now wait until I have drained the first combustion chamber, cleaned the plexiglass and valves, blown the sparkplug dry, and set up for the next combustion chamber and then read the volume for the last combustion chamber I measured.

.4 of a cc might be critical someday.
Click to expand...
What the Hell, looks like a hospital
 
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