440 Intake for Full Race?? - Our Lil Red Express

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Dart Sport 360

Dart Sport 360

Wanna Race?
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We are rebuilding the motor in our Lil Red Express Drag truck

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BToiQ_9PAn0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BToiQ_9PAn0[/ame]

For the past 15 years we have run a weiand tunnel ram with dual 750's... until this year we have had good luck with the tunnel ram but we have lost our tune and have a hard time getting it back to where its been.

Anyway we are rebuilding the 440 and want to try going to a single 1050 for next year. I'm wondering what intake you guys recommend.

The motor dyno'd 565 at the wheels with the TR... pulled hard in the top end, just would bog off the line. The motor has probably always been over carb'd but it worked so we never changed it. Best was 10.48, now its a struggle to get into the 10's....

The heads are an old set of indy 440-sr's from the late 90's. cast aluminum not billet. They have the same port as a 902 head.

Anyone have recommendations on a sheet metal intake? Looking at all options! I would also like to know what you guys think about the funnel spacer to fit a dominator onto a standard intake... indy told a buddy of mine it helped speed up the air into the intake and made 40hp....

Thanks, if you want more info please let me know.
 
Not sure about a sheet metal one, but what rpm do you trap at?
 
I think the 4150 carb pad with the adaptor is a good idea. SOmething like the Victor or Indy 440-14-2 and 2a adaptor.
 
I'm sure there is someone here who will say i'm crazy but single carb with a indy intake to match the heads would bring it around. Tunnel rams are old technology. I love your Lil' Red, I have wanted one since i was a kid. i remember sneaking into a guys shop when I was like 10 to peak under the cover at his 79, he still has it today.
 
Hey here I am racing the ..Lil Red at a ONDR event.He got me at the topend,but the clock says I ran a 11.90??I was running 11.00 all day.WTF?And you can see the truck was dialed for 11.0,s Anyway thought I,d share the video.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yadq6AHQlgs"]Racing the 66 Dart 092 - YouTube[/ame]
 
Thanks for the video petty!!! I stumbled on it last week! Dad was racing that weekend, the old mans still got a win or two in him... We all were lucky we didnt need a boat that day... remember that monster T-storm that just misses us!.... Yikes
 
It could just be the rings getting tired, I'd do a leakdown 1st., If it ran good before with this set-up, theres no way it can't run good again, just don't blame the TR, The weiand Street ram is one of the best for torque & drivability, Its a proven fact over just about any single set-up out there, Don't believe the hype about old technology or TRs are hard too tune yada-yada, its BS, most that say that have never run one or can't tune them so they give up, I think your over carb'd, A pair of 650dp's is all thats really needed, A pair of 660's are even better for drag racing, not so much for a cruiser, which i'm sure yours is not, but the 650's will be fine, It would be a shame to see you go with a single set-up & be right where your at or a bit slower, you will be pissed, check the engine out 1st. A weiand street ram & the "right" carbs dialed in will stayed tuned & give you less headaches then a single carb trust me BTDT, you will never get all that top end back, just pick the right carbs, thats "key" when running a TR, you already have the linkage for the side mounted carbs, unless your useing the small bowls, thats my 2 cents.
 
Sorry.... don't assume we are rebuilding the motor for the first time in 15 years... LOL!

Its been freshened and checked every 3-4 seasons. We don't race every weekend either, maybe twice a month, if that... We've just had the same combo for that long...

The engine is getting new rings, block will get re-honed, new valve springs and have the valves seated. everything else in the engine looks great.

Regardless of if the tunnel ram worked we are going to one carb just for curiosity sake. the expense is not huge and we can always go back. I know the TR will work but we are frustrated with it right now and need to play with something new for a bit.
 
I agree on the leak down. I leak test mine a couple times a year, not hard to do and gives me piece of mind. If you do have issues with rings and need to freshen up your engine It maybe a good time to improe your combo. IMO it sounds like your are leaving some efficiency on the table and a sheet metal intake is not your combos future. Post what you have now including the drive train, there are a lot of good racer here that can help.
 
We did a leak down in the spring and it matched one we did just before it came apart. All the cylinders were right around 95% but one was down around 90%... That cylinder looks good so the valves need to be checked and the seats.

Here's as much details I can pull off the top of my head:
3650 lbs race weight
440 - .060 over
Zero Deck Height
Solid Roller .690 lift
I'm not sure the cc of the heads. It needs to be confirmed this time.
Around 10 or 11 to 1 compression
727 TF
ATI Converter - stalls around 5000
Food Brake
Strange 9" w/ 4.56
29.5 Tire
 
something is not adding up to me. maybe someone can help. 6k throught the traps on a .690lift cam sounds low. Specialy with a 4.56 and 29in tire. Post the durration @50... Whats the MPH in the traps? 110-115? If your combo dynoed at 6200 Max HP than your trap should be at or above that.
Its not apples to apples but i have a roller .690 static in my 500 and with about the same heads and i have no issue with shifting at 6500+ and it pulls through the traps at 7100 with the same gear and taller tire. That on a single plane with 1050 dom. I know my car is lighter but I think that 4.56 gear and 29 tire should be netting a higher trap RPM.

The cc of the head should be around 74-77.
 
Sorry that's my mistake... I just looked back at my other post.

We shift at 6200 and it goes thru at about 6500... it did make peak hp at 6200. The shift light is on at about the mph line. trap is 122 mph without a bog.

I don't have the duration @50 in front of me.... I will find the cam card.

The bog was effected by weather for sure. In the first video that I posted from Monster Mopar it didn't bog on the Friday but as the weather changed into Saturday is had a slight sputter that grew into a complete bog by Saturday night before the rain hit... the worst bogs are not in that video because they are too embarrassing... lol..
 
Well I went ahead and bought a 440-i4-3 intake from Indy this morning. I talked to the guy at Indy and it was very interesting. Seems we have been using our heads with the "stock" port size. They can be opened to the Max Wedge port size with a little work and it should make a big difference. He thinks the tunnel ram, although opened up, was restricting the engine quite a bit. He said for a small motor like ours that it really didn't matter all that much it use the adapter or a 4500 flanged intake. It it was up over 500 ci then it might make a difference. Anyways he said it should really wake the motor up and wouldn't be surprised to see 100hp gain over the TR.

I guess we'll see what happens...
 
I tend to disagree with them on two things: the port window, for the rpm and cam you have is fine. Smaller and faster is better and I don't think the work (and expense) is worth the result. Upgrade the heads if you want to make a feelable improvement. Second, the 4500 adaptor. I do think some plenum volume will be good for it, and the adaptor adds that and allows the 4500 series carbs to bolt on. But, that can also be played with later with bolt ons.
 
................I've always been told to use the mwpw on a 440 u need 2 twist at least 7500.......u will also need a higher stall converter.....kim...........
 
I guess we'll find out when it goes on the dyno in the spring. As long as its tunable I really don't care. I run a 10.90 index class so as long as it will run under that in the heat I will be happy.

Stall is already over 5000... Probaly close too 5200.
 
Here's some pics of what it took me to run a .700 lift cam with Indy SR heads.

Notice ports are not max wedge size.
2011-06-19_15-54-19_554.jpg


Ex port.
0722000947a.jpg


Rocker arms we tried before we found the one that worked.
0902001018.jpg


The winner is T and D Rockers.Not the valves or springs.
Unknown.jpg


Changing valve springs on the engine after installing the wrong dia springs
2011-03-29_11-51-38_36.jpg


Indy 400 Intake with 4150 base and the funnel adapter to 4500.
Adapter matched to intake.
PIC_0043.jpg


Lifters for .700 lift cam.
2011-04-14_09-37-13_743.jpg


I like the Indy heads.
The car ran 10.50's before the cam swap.
I leave off the trans brake with a 4000n rpm converter.
The old cam was in the .650 lift range.
 
let me get this straight, your hotrod ran 10.48's and now it struggles to get into the 10's and you think it's the tunnel ram set up and you need togo to a sigle carb. it might just need rebuilt along with the motor. first off 2 750's are not too big for a 440. i agree with joedust in post #9 100%. what "exactly" was the tune on the TR carbs that was on it when you remove it from service?
 
The engine is a 499 based on a 400 low deck.
This is the beauty of buying a system even if it's Indy.
The intake and heads were close just needing port patched to the porting of the heads.
Hopes this answers your question.
 
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