440 rods in 400

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Ty Winings

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Would this be a good setup to run on 87 octane? IC825 pistons, 440 rods, 400 block, performer intake, 650 or 750 carb. Don't know what cam yet, planning on throwing this motor in for a daily driver. I need to run on 87 octane though, is this possible. Or should I just do stock 400 rods, 383 steel crank, kb240 pistons. Want the most power on 87 octane
 
Generally speaking you want to use the longest rods possible in a given combo.
 
I'd stick with the 400 rods in the 400 block with correct crank and pistons. The pistons could be off the shelf ones which would be cheaper than custom ones with a raised pin. As far as 87 octane gas goes you want to keep the static compression ratio to 8.5 or less. The intake system (including cam) will control what your cylinder pressures will be...which will ultimately define what octane you have to run as well as the altitude.
 
What do you prefer for a 400 build, that makes good power, but on 87. Like what cam, what pistons, was thinking on using a set of 452 heads
 
I always wanted to try that. inwas looking into it years ago and off the shelf piston choices for 383 and 400 at that time sucked. There was a Chevy piston that would have worked with the 383 block, stock stroke, and 440 length rod. Would be interesting, but then that's kind of an expensive "experiment".
I never tried to make power on 87, I wonder how a closed chamber aluminum head with a dished piston designed to match the chamber would work?
 
Ty Winings said:
Would this be a good setup to run on 87 octane? IC825 pistons, 440 rods, 400 block, performer intake, 650 or 750 carb. Don't know what cam yet, planning on throwing this motor in for a daily driver. I need to run on 87 octane though, is this possible. Or should I just do stock 400 rods, 383 steel crank, kb240 pistons. Want the most power on 87 octane
Click to expand...
by the time you invest in that...................


Stroker Kits-440 Source
 
Ty Winings said:
What do you prefer for a 400 build, that makes good power, but on 87. Like what cam, what pistons, was thinking on using a set of 452 heads
Click to expand...
What worked for me with a 440 build was pretty much a stock build with 906 heads and what was called a "Roadrunner" camshaft. The cam was picked because the torque curve peaks early and remains fairly flat. Worked surprisingly well. Stock iron manifold and a 650 carb.
 
Ty Winings said:
So I could run that on E85? IQ52?
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Yep!...................Wait. E85! But why? I was referencing it to 85 octane. If I built this for E85 it would have a wad more compression............and I'm already talking too much.
 
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If you can run E85, you can run 12:1 compression. (I'm running 13.8:1 with EFI on B1 heads) 87oct, notsomuch. If the primary goal is power, I'd go E85 on kill.

I'd go with the long rod/IC825 combo simply because it's a much superior piston to the hyper explosives; better rings, lighter, stronger, etc. Still going to spend the same money on rod rebuilding either way. Around here(chicago) factory 383/440 rods from tear downs are give away "want these or do I throw them out?" parts. I'd buy a guy lunch for a set. But that's here, no relevance.

Wallace Racing: Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator You can calculate what your dynamic compression is going to approximate, and that will tell you roughly how much static compression you can get away with, and/or how much cam you must run.

IQ52 has done this before and he's kindly posted his results. You have to decide what you want/can afford, and how much of his work applies to what you're doing.

It's much less expensive to figure out what you're gonna do before you start buying parts, vice buying parts and trying to figure out what you're gonna do afterwards. S/F.....Ken M
 
Addendum: Look at piston IC 828, it's 0.005 taller CH, but it's significantly lighter with a shorter/lighter pin. Order them at 4.360 if you block cleans up there, or 4.375 if that's what it needs. S/F....Ken M
 
ive build a 451 out of a 400 using ross pistons,stock ly rods,440 steel crank turn mains to 400 size,ran 10.30s on alky in a cuda
 
If you do a 3.75" stroke nuy the Source crank for that conversion. I'd run the 440 length rod if you're using the stock heads. If you're not using the longer stroke, just get 400 pistons to keep the static around 9:1. Run a cam in the 225* at .050 range and go have fun.
 
Find one good engine builder/machinist, tell him/her what your budget is, what you want, pay that one person to design that engine, then forget everyone else's advice and build the engine. Engine builds by forum committee suck.
 
IQ52 said:
Find one good engine builder/machinist, tell him/her what your budget is, what you want, pay that one person to design that engine, then forget everyone else's advice and build the engine. Engine builds by forum committee suck.
Click to expand...
Or copy IQ52's build :poke::rofl:
 
dukeboy_318 said:
Or copy IQ52's build :poke::rofl:
Click to expand...
I would say the forum thing is good, to get an idea. But he's right, look how many different ideas there are. I recently had a 451 built by the machinist I've used for the last 20 years. Took a while. We started it before I really knew how easy it was to do the 470. I didn't really want to do the 4.15" stroke. After the parts were acquired Andyf started posting up his build, I then started kicking myself. I would have done that. Too late oh well. The 452 will do the job. there were things I wanted to do, that my machinist wasn't into. In the end I told him what I wanted and he built it his way, so he could stand behind it.
Just like IQ52 recommended.
 
If you don't really like the low compression 400, here is another with a little more compression. Not 87 octane, but on 91 octane pump gas.

...........500 lb-ft from 3,500-7,000+rpm..........

'74 model year 400 block, square decked, line honed, bored and hand honed with a deck plate.
FireCore50 distributor, as I refuse to run a "dizzy"...........barf!
440 forged factory crank, cut to 400 main size, counter weights cut .125" in radius.
Scat H-beam rods with .001" pin clearance.
Ross forged pistons, standard 6cc flycut, .0065" piston to cylinder wall clearance.
Total Seal ring set.
Erson custom solid roller, 276/280 @ .050, .816/.816 lift with 1.6 rockers, 110 LSA/ 108 ICL.
Cloyes 9-keyway 3-bolt timing set.
Valve springs 250# @ 1.900" IH 750# @ .800" lift.
10 degree titanium retainers.
829-16 Comp Cams solid rollers.
Harland Sharp rockers
Our ported Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, 349 cfm @ .800" lift.
Indy 400 single plane intake manifold, dominator flange.
HVH Super Sucker 2" 4-into-1 carburetor spacer.
Pro-Systems XC 1140 cfm Dominator carburetor.
Professional Products SFI Damper.
Mancini Electric water pump on stock cast iron housing.
Factory 4 quart oil pan, factory 3/8" pickup, with factory windage tray, crank scraper.
75 psi oil pressure at 3,000 rpm and 78 psi oil pressure @ 7,400 rpm.
11.7:1 compression on 91 octane pump gas.

17th dyno run...........

RPM..............TQ/HP

3500..........503/355
4000..........519/395
4500..........555/475
5000..........584/556
5500..........571/598
6000..........599/684
6100..........604/701
6500..........590/730
7000..........575/767

One earlier pull made 787 HP @ 7,200 rpm, and every time we took it over 7,000 it made at least 770 HP.

Not a lot of fancy stuff on it. No belts, vacuum pumps, dry sumps, super expensive manifolds.
 
jamesdart said:
I would say the forum thing is good, to get an idea. But he's right, look how many different ideas there are. I recently had a 451 built by the machinist I've used for the last 20 years. Took a while. We started it before I really knew how easy it was to do the 470. I didn't really want to do the 4.15" stroke. After the parts were acquired Andyf started posting up his build, I then started kicking myself. I would have done that. Too late oh well. The 452 will do the job. there were things I wanted to do, that my machinist wasn't into. In the end I told him what I wanted and he built it his way, so he could stand behind it.
Just like IQ52 recommended.
Click to expand...

Oh I know. I'm copying his build :thumbsup:​
 
IQ52 said:
If you don't really like the low compression 400, here is another with a little more compression. Not 87 octane, but on 91 octane pump gas.

...........500 lb-ft from 3,500-7,000+rpm..........

'74 model year 400 block, square decked, line honed, bored and hand honed with a deck plate.
FireCore50 distributor, as I refuse to run a "dizzy"...........barf!
440 forged factory crank, cut to 400 main size, counter weights cut .125" in radius.
Scat H-beam rods with .001" pin clearance.
Ross forged pistons, standard 6cc flycut, .0065" piston to cylinder wall clearance.
Total Seal ring set.
Erson custom solid roller, 276/280 @ .050, .816/.816 lift with 1.6 rockers, 110 LSA/ 108 ICL.
Cloyes 9-keyway 3-bolt timing set.
Valve springs 250# @ 1.900" IH 750# @ .800" lift.
10 degree titanium retainers.
829-16 Comp Cams solid rollers.
Harland Sharp rockers
Our ported Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, 349 cfm @ .800" lift.
Indy 400 single plane intake manifold, dominator flange.
HVH Super Sucker 2" 4-into-1 carburetor spacer.
Pro-Systems XC 1140 cfm Dominator carburetor.
Professional Products SFI Damper.
Mancini Electric water pump on stock cast iron housing.
Factory 4 quart oil pan, factory 3/8" pickup, with factory windage tray, crank scraper.
75 psi oil pressure at 3,000 rpm and 78 psi oil pressure @ 7,400 rpm.
11.7:1 compression on 91 octane pump gas.

17th dyno run...........

RPM..............TQ/HP

3500..........503/355
4000..........519/395
4500..........555/475
5000..........584/556
5500..........571/598
6000..........599/684
6100..........604/701
6500..........590/730
7000..........575/767

One earlier pull made 787 HP @ 7,200 rpm, and every time we took it over 7,000 it made at least 770 HP.

Not a lot of fancy stuff on it. No belts, vacuum pumps, dry sumps, super expensive manifolds.
Click to expand...
Wow!
 
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