5.9 into '72 Scamp- search not helping...

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AbodyTim

AbodyTim

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Complete '00 Durango 5.9 donor vehicle w/ bad transmission. I want to swap the 5.9 and EFI into a '72 Scamp I recently acquired.
If I run an 833 trans. in the Scamp, can I simply use an '00-'01 Ram manual trans. PCM with my existing Durango harness?
I thought there were a few threads here about swapping in the 5.9/5.2 w/ the stock EFI but I can't find them. Search really hates me also. :mad:
Internet searches provide manual trans. swaps into Dakotas (usually R/Ts) and they either live with the CEL being on or try having the PCM reprogrammed (and usually without much luck). I do want to add a CEL light to my cluster and will have the data link under the dash.
If someone knows the answer or can give me a link to this type of swap, I would greatly appreciate it. :thankyou:
 
You would need a speed sensor in the mix for the PCM to know what vehicle speed is.
Other than that it should be just a programming change.

Evan (magnummopar) would know all the exact specifics.
 
TrailBeast said:
You would need a speed sensor in the mix for the PCM to know what vehicle speed is.
Other than that it should be just a programming change.

Evan (magnummopar) would know all the exact specifics.
Click to expand...
I was just reading through his 10 day magnum swap where he ran the stock 904 but he didn't mention what he did for a speed sensor.
Glad you mentioned speed sensor as I didn't think of it. :thumbsup:
If I can find out about using a Ram manual trans PCM w/ my existing harness and what to do about a speed sensor, I'll be ready to start. :D
Edit: I think I found the answer to my question on another thread he replied to. I also found his web site so I'll e-mail him and make double-sure.
Thanks. :thumbsup:
 
Last edited:
AbodyTim said:
I was just reading through his 10 day magnum swap where he ran the stock 904 but he didn't mention what he did for a speed sensor.
Glad you mentioned speed sensor as I didn't think of it. :thumbsup:
If I can find out about using a Ram manual trans PCM w/ my existing harness and what to do about a speed sensor, I'll be ready to start. :D
Click to expand...

As I understand it, the A833 uses the same speedo housing and gears as the 904 and 727.
When I put the A500OD in my car I didn't use the speed sensor and housing because I am not running EFI (carbed)
If it'll work for you I still have the original speed sensor unit.

speedsensor.jpg
 
I think the issue is finding a car 4 speed flywheel with the "tone ring notches" not sure if such a thing exists
 
AbodyTim said:
This one probably-

Billet Steel Flywheel 360/5.9L
Click to expand...

are you keeping the efi? that flywheel is a 143 toothed flywheel with the pick up for crank sensor so your regular La bellhousing is to small. you will have to use a bell from a ram 1500 or dakota. but the A833 will not bolt to that bellhousing. it has an asin bolt pattern for ax15 = dakota R154- toyota, and MA5/AR5- solstice/colorado transmissions. this has been hashed over before in several threads. here is one. magnum manual swap
 
rapidtransitric said:
are you keeping the efi? that flywheel is a 143 toothed flywheel with the pick up for crank sensor so your regular La bellhousing is to small. you will have to use a bell from a ram 1500 or dakota. but the A833 will not bolt to that bellhousing. it has an asin bolt pattern for ax15 = dakota R154- toyota, and MA5/AR5- solstice/colorado transmissions. this has been hashed over before in several threads. here is one. magnum manual swap
Click to expand...

If you look at it again and click on the description, it states that it's a 130 tooth/10.5 clutch flywheel with the option to add a reluctor ring for EFI use. I guess someone has finally come up with an EFI flywheel for the old 4 spd.
 
I've read on the Dakota R/T forum that the guys that do manual trans swaps on '00(maybe '01) and later trucks have had more trouble getting the auto trans computer to work. Flyin Ryan Tuning is one of the few guys that has been able to tune these later trucks for a manual trans and not have a check engine light, or have the engine running in limp mode. They say the '99(maybe '00) and earlier R/Ts are easier to tune the auto function out of the computer.

I found a '98 Ram 5.9 manual computer for when I swap my '94 OBD1 harness to a '98 OBD2 harness in my Scamp.
 
dragbaron said:
If you look at it again and click on the description, it states that it's a 130 tooth/10.5 clutch flywheel with the option to add a reluctor ring for EFI use. I guess someone has finally come up with an EFI flywheel for the old 4 spd.
Click to expand...


that is good to know. so all you need to do then is notch your bellhousing for the crank sensor
 
good to know. so all you need to do then is to notch your bellhousing for the crank sensor. i believe DionR hit a brick wall on this a while back.
 
dragbaron said:
I've read on the Dakota R/T forum that the guys that do manual trans swaps on '00(maybe '01) and later trucks have had more trouble getting the auto trans computer to work. Flyin Ryan Tuning is one of the few guys that has been able to tune these later trucks for a manual trans and not have a check engine light, or have the engine running in limp mode. They say the '99(maybe '00) and earlier R/Ts are easier to tune the auto function out of the computer.

I found a '98 Ram 5.9 manual computer for when I swap my '94 OBD1 harness to a '98 OBD2 harness in my Scamp.
Click to expand...

I was told that the wiring connectors changed in '00- hence my question about using an '00-'01 Ram manual trans computer. I had also read about all the troubles the guys doing the manual swap were having by trying to tune an auto computer. :(
Not sure why the one gentleman hit a brick wall with notching his bell. I plan on measuring everything twice :) when I do mine.
 
AbodyTim said:
Not sure why the one gentleman hit a brick wall with notching his bell. I plan on measuring everything twice :) when I do mine.
Click to expand...

The brick wall I hit had nothing to do with the notch. At one point, there wasn't an option for a 130T flywheel with the notches so you could run EFI. I went round and round for awhile looking for fixes, including a dual pick-up distributor that ended up being vaporware, and trying to relocate the CPS to the front. I knew of one individual that was able to get a 143T flywheel cut down to fit a 130T ring, but others were told that was impossible and shops refused to do the machining. Red at McLeod (as I recall) even said it wasn't possible to build a flywheel that worked, while one other individual got a custom flywheel build that was hugely expensive.

And don't forget, it's not just the guys that wanted to put an EFI Magnum in front of an old school 4 speed that struggles. If you wanted a T56 instead, you were in the same boat because there wasn't a bellhousing that would fit the stock 143T flywheel and bolt up to a T56. That's why the one guy bit the bullet and spend a good chunk of dough on a custom flywheel, he wanted to bolt a T56 into his Dakota.

In the end, it's all water under the bridge now that you can buy a flywheel for a reasonable price.
 
DionR said:
The brick wall I hit had nothing to do with the notch. At one point, there wasn't an option for a 130T flywheel with the notches so you could run EFI. I went round and round for awhile looking for fixes, including a dual pick-up distributor that ended up being vaporware, and trying to relocate the CPS to the front. I knew of one individual that was able to get a 143T flywheel cut down to fit a 130T ring, but others were told that was impossible and shops refused to do the machining. Red at McLeod (as I recall) even said it wasn't possible to build a flywheel that worked, while one other individual got a custom flywheel build that was hugely expensive.

And don't forget, it's not just the guys that wanted to put an EFI Magnum in front of an old school 4 speed that struggles. If you wanted a T56 instead, you were in the same boat because there wasn't a bellhousing that would fit the stock 143T flywheel and bolt up to a T56. That's why the one guy bit the bullet and spend a good chunk of dough on a custom flywheel, he wanted to bolt a T56 into his Dakota.

In the end, it's all water under the bridge now that you can buy a flywheel for a reasonable price.
Click to expand...


Cool stuff
 
TrailBeast said:
You would need a speed sensor in the mix for the PCM to know what vehicle speed is.
Other than that it should be just a programming change.

Evan (magnummopar) would know all the exact specifics.
Click to expand...

I don't run one on my factory PCM EFI conversion.
 
jbc426 said:
I don't run one on my factory PCM EFI conversion.
Click to expand...

But your's is a reprogrammed PCM, correct? Just a guess, but I bet the need for a VSS was probably removed when it was reprogrammed.
 
DionR said:
But your's is a reprogrammed PCM, correct? Just a guess, but I bet the need for a VSS was probably removed when it was reprogrammed.
Click to expand...

Had to be something like that or it would be all screwed up from not knowing how fast it was going.
Just saying it doesn't need or use it doesn't help much.

Why is what will help much. :D
 
I got an aluminum flywheel made with tone ring for mine. The steel ones have been out for years.
 
DionR said:
But your's is a reprogrammed PCM, correct? Just a guess, but I bet the need for a VSS was probably removed when it was reprogrammed.
Click to expand...


Why does the engine care what speed the car is going? Just like if it was bolted to a dyno. It only needs to know RPM, throttle position air temp and what the MAF are doing. It's always been my understanding that the speed sensor is for the automatic transmission function.

I used a PCM out of a '98 Dodge Ram with manual trans and no security fob. I then re-flashed the fuel and ignition and rev limit curves via a custom tune.
 
jbc426 said:
Why does the engine care what speed the car is going? Just like if it was bolted to a dyno. It only needs to know RPM, throttle position air temp and what the MAF are doing. It's always been my understanding that the speed sensor is for the automatic transmission function.
Click to expand...

I didn't mean to imply that the engine cares (for the most part), I was only saying that it was my understanding that the PCM was programmed to looked for VSS input and the lack of it would cause issues, generally things like stalling when coming to a stop.

Maybe a manual trans PCM doesn't use the info. Don't know. I thought they still did, but I don't see myself as any kind of an expert.
 
Sorry for the hijack, but I just bought a low mile 5.9 Magnum from a 98 model 5 spd 3500. I got all of the underhood wiring, along with the PCM. I'm putting it in an 88 D100 automatic pickup, and want to keep the MPFI. Anybody got a wiring diagram of what I need to keep and delete in the wiring? Reading the above replies, will my PCM care what trans is behind the motor since it's for a stick truck? Will the magnetic pickup that is on my motor and for a straight drive, work with a flex plate?
 
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