500 hp 360 ??

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woody30

woody30

woody30
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Went to an engine builder with a machine shop today. He told me he could build me a 360 with tight to 500 hp. Probably 485-490 for $4500 if I supplied the core. All parts baked, blasted and magnafluxed. Stock cast crank (shotpeened), stock rods redone (told me 360 rods are awesome), rotating assembly balanced to within a half a gram, a flat tappet .500+ lift comp cam with hydraulic lifters, crane roller rockers, kb pistons .030 (bored and honed with a torque plate), stock heads ported and polished. What do you think?? He's been building engines for 29 years and has a very good reputation. Likes to build Chryslers and make the bowtie boys cringe he said. Used to race Mopars. He said he loves the 360's potential and said the bottom end on them was far far superior to a Chevy. Told me I could run 7000 rpm all day but the power is going to top out at about 6300-6500 (unless I sprung for good aluminum heads). He has a flow bench and said he gets 275-280 on the intake side and 200 on the exhaust side after porting stock 360 heads. I also have a 6 pack set up to put on it and he will port match the intake to the heads. Should be a nasty little sob in my 2900 pound Barracuda, huh.
 
woody30 said:
Went to an engine builder with a machine shop today. He told me he could build me a 360 with tight to 500 hp. Probably 485-490 for $4500 if I supplied the core. All parts baked, blasted and magnafluxed. Stock cast crank (shotpeened), stock rods redone (told me 360 rods are awesome), rotating assembly balanced to within a half a gram, a flat tappet .500+ lift comp cam with hydraulic lifters, crane roller rockers, kb pistons .030 (bored and honed with a torque plate), stock heads ported and polished. What do you think?? He's been building engines for 29 years and has a very good reputation. Likes to build Chryslers and make the bowtie boys cringe he said. Used to race Mopars. He said he loves the 360's potential and said the bottom end on them was far far superior to a Chevy. Told me I could run 7000 rpm all day but the power is going to top out at about 6300-6500 (unless I sprung for good aluminum heads). He has a flow bench and said he gets 275-280 on the intake side and 200 on the exhaust side after porting stock 360 heads. I also have a 6 pack set up to put on it and he will port match the intake to the heads. Should be a nasty little sob in my 2900 pound Barracuda, huh.
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I love the enthusiasm...:thumleft: And yes, that power in a 2900lb car would be awesome.

If you can get close to those flow numbers, I think it's doable. I'd prefer a fairly large solid flat tappet to get there. Along with some compression, and with at least a min 1 3/4" header, I think your getting close.

Though i seriously doubt the six pack, being a dual plane design, will be your friend trying to get where you're looking to go.

Never the less, it should be a fun build!
 
That's going to have to be a VERY aggressive hyd flat cam.

6 paks look cool, will likely go backwards, quite a bit, from a similarly sized single 4.
 
crackedback said:
That's going to have to be a VERY aggressive hyd flat cam.

6 paks look cool, will likely go backwards, quite a bit, from a similarly sized single 4.
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My first thought.
With a 4" arm in there , no problem getting close.......you could screw up your way to 450.
A hyd. flat tappet would probably be the first thing I changed. Hyd roller or solid f.t.
 
Ditch the hydraulic flat tappet for a solid flat tappet. Do you already have the rockers or are you buying them. If you don't already have them, get a set of Hughes rockers much better IMO. 360 rods are good rods, but here is the thing. By the time you clean em up / press off old pistons, magnaflux em, put in ARP bolts, resize em, maybe polish the beams, and balance em. You're in em damn near as much as a set of lighter, stronger, full floating, NEW ( not stressed out from years of use ) 4340 steel aftermarket rods. I like the SCAT I beams http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sca-26123 .
 
You should ask Tony(70aarcuda) about his 360,s,knows his stuff running 10,s in a couple cars with 360.Its all about combo..
 
Pettybludart just watched some of your videos. Man that is an extremely quick car. WOW.
 
OldmanRick said:
Though i seriously doubt the six pack, being a dual plane design, will be your friend trying to get where you're looking to go.
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Don't doubt. Don't short sell the intake.

skrews said:
Ditch the hydraulic flat tappet for a solid flat tappet. Do you already have the rockers or are you buying them. If you don't already have them, get a set of Hughes rockers much better IMO. 360 rods are good rods, but here is the thing. By the time you clean em up / press off old pistons, magnaflux em, put in ARP bolts, resize em, maybe polish the beams, and balance em. You're in em damn near as much as a set of lighter, stronger, full floating, NEW ( not stressed out from years of use ) 4340 steel aftermarket rods. I like the SCAT I beams http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sca-26123 .
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Excellent idea! New, stronger and less expensive, lighter rotating assembly. Winner all around.
 
I have to admit Rob, running 11 oh's and then popping the hood to see stock heads and a six pack would really up the cool factor. :thumleft:
 
Ditch the flat tappet. Period. Although a bigger bit out of the pocketbook, a solid roller will make things way easier here. I don't think a stock rod bottom end will do "7000 all day" but it can surely see it. I think maybe what he meant is that it will hold up literally forever with a 6500 RPM red line......which is about right. Sounds like he wants to do you a fair job and he certainly sounds familiar with the strength of a small block.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Ditch the flat tappet. Period. Although a bigger bit out of the pocketbook, a solid roller will make things way easier here. I don't think a stock rod bottom end will do "7000 all day" but it can surely see it. I think maybe what he meant is that it will hold up literally forever with a 6500 RPM red line......which is about right. Sounds like he wants to do you a fair job and he certainly sounds familiar with the strength of a small block.
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i dont doubt that the stockrods with ARP bolts can take 7000rpm all day,i know they can handle 7500rpms all day long with heavy TRW pistons in a 340,with light pistons in a 360 im sure 7000 wont ever be a problem.
 
those flow #s on the heads are as good as ported rpms #s i have seen posted here
 
1Fast340 said:
i dont doubt that the stockrods with ARP bolts can take 7000rpm all day,i know they can handle 7500rpms all day long with heavy TRW pistons in a 340,with light pistons in a 360 im sure 7000 wont ever be a problem.
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Certainly that was not the main point I was agruing, but ok. lol
 
7000 rpm all day....like 24 hours all day?...or short sprints down the track all day?

I would use the LIGHTER scat rods all day and every day.
 
Isn't that a lot of money for stock rods and crank? I second the use of forged I beam Scat rods and forged crank wouldn't be a bad idea either IMHO. I'm sure cast can handle it but if I were turning a lot of RPMs a forged crank would help me sleep better :)
 
Ambitious on a stock stroke 360 meant for some street duty but it could be done. I'd definitely go hyd roller cam and a Mag version block. Some real worked up Eddy or Iron Ram heads and stout bottom end. Matched up Air Gap or M1 too. Devil in the details balancing and blue printing etc. These days it's easier than ever though with the parts and tech available...
 
Assuming the numbers he gives and his work is top of the line it's doable - but I would doubt if he does this for a living that it's doable for that cost figure.

The changes I'd make - The cam will make street driving an issue because of the requisite gearing and convertor. I would say lose the idea of 500hp and look at the idea of 500tq. It takes less head work, less cam, and is more friendly for "multi-use". At 3K lbs it will only take about 400hp at the crank to get deep into the 12s on a street car and you can do it on a more reasonable gear and livable convertor.
If you have to have "500hp" I'd switch to a solid flat tappet cam and that 6bbl intake is a power hog. You will lose at least 40hp running it on a 500hp engine over an RPM Air Gap or matched single plane like the M1.
 
I'd run a solid roller. It would be worth the smal amoutnof extra money for the hp and reliability it wil provide.

I'd also like to see some dyno numbers whether crank or chassis on a dyno not owned and operated by the machinest. I guess i'm not believing such a simple build with stock parts making 225hp+ more than stock. I've had 340 and a 2 440's built. One of them touched the 500hp level....
 
Smells fishy to me...I don't think worked over stock heads are going to flow like that, and I don't think you will get 500hp with a hydo flat tappet (along with the other stuff mentioned). If you do go this route, and the engine really does what he says, you will be running low 11's....my guess is this engine will get you mid 12's at best. Not trying to be a downer...it just sounds like a 400hp build, not a 500hp build.
 
"500HP" is a very common number people grab out of the air to simply mean a really powerful engine. It could be that's what he was doing. From the comments he made about the rods, it does sound like he knows MoPars are strong there, so he caint be all stupid.
 
With good machining and assembly, enough rpm, and the right cam it can make that figure with 250cfm heads. It's not "head limited". But you still have to Stage III port them and match the intake, buy good valvetrain parts, and fully machine the block, etc etc etc. That's why I say if he's earning a living doing this I find it hard to believe for that money. 400hp is easy for $4500. 500hp is another $1500-$2K and I still think that's getting out cheap.
 
flyfish said:
.it just sounds like a 400hp build, not a 500hp build.
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now that's more believable

RustyRatRod said:
"500HP" is a very common number people grab out of the air to simply mean a really powerful engine. It could be that's what he was doing.
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I would be quite ticked off if the engine fell short and I got an explanation that it was a figure of speech. But yes, that is a common figure of speech. It's easy to tell the guys who are making it up too. Very few builds make exactly 500hp! So the guy who tells you my engine makes 508hp is more likely telling the truth.

moper said:
With good machining and assembly, enough rpm, and the right cam it can make that figure with 250cfm heads. It's not "head limited". But you still have to Stage III port them and match the intake, buy good valvetrain parts, and fully machine the block, etc etc etc. That's why I say if he's earning a living doing this I find it hard to believe for that money. 400hp is easy for $4500. 500hp is another $1500-$2K and I still think that's getting out cheap.
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And good luck with the stage III porting. I had a set of 906's done using the MPP templates. They leaked in 5/8 cylinders and cost me about 1200 total when it was all sadi and done.... For a stock set of iron heaads. Awsome. Lesson learned.
 
I had Brian from IMM engines build me a 360 the hard way with a LW 3.580 Scat crank in a 340 block- I have Ross flat tops 10.7 to 1 comprssion W2 heads mild port work, 591/595 soild roller with a M-1 intake and 830 cfm Holley
it made 485 hp @6300 rpms and 440 trq @ 5500 rpms

I would agree sound like 375-400 HP build
 
roccodart440 said:
And good luck with the stage III porting. I had a set of 906's done using the MPP templates. They leaked in 5/8 cylinders and cost me about 1200 total when it was all sadi and done.... For a stock set of iron heaads. Awsome. Lesson learned.
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Remember tho - "stage III" simply means completely worked - entry to chamber. Template work IMO is not even a full stage II. Personally I use my sonic tester in ports that by design need to be larger everywhere... and even with that I've hit water before due to mad core shift which Mopars are famous for. At my best I can get about 265 on a paid tester's bench from most 340/360 iron heads. That's enough to get 500hp with enough camshaft. But getting paid to do that has to be a labor of love for the owner because it's not going to be the cheap way out. I'd prefer (and almost always recommend) use of a modern design aftermarket head.

My point here was you don't need full porting to reach 500hp. So long as the valves open far enough for long enough and none of it's wasted. IQ here likes those big roller cams and you can read about the numbers he gets from them with worked factory iron heads.
 
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